On 09 Jan 2014, at 17:53, John Clark wrote:

On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> Well, read Bell.

I have.

> It shows how QM violates his inequality.

I know, I demonstrated exactly that on this very list using my own language. And Bell knew of course that his inequality was not consistent with Quantum Mechanics,

with Copenhagen QM.



what he didn't know at the time was if his inequality was consistent with reality or if Quantum Mechanics was. That question was answered experimentally a couple of decades after Bell's theoretical work and the winner was Quantum Mechanics;

Yes.



so now we know that at least one of the assumptions that Bell made (realism, locality, high school math works) must be wrong.

In Bell realism bears on the unique outcome. It is realism in Copenhagen QM. he does not address the question of locality in the non- collapse theory (which he does not like).





> but Bell's inequality IS violated.

Experimentally,

Huh? This is a physical idea not a mathematical one, how else could it be proven wrong other than experimentally?

Sometimes it is good to be redundant on what is important :)




> But when you look at the many branches, at once [...]

Unfortunately my eyesight isn't good enough to allow me to look at many branches of the multiverse at once.

There is a technic: do QM. Just look at the terms in the solution of shroedinger equation, involving yourself, perhaps with Alice and Bob, etc.




> to me, the Bell's inequality experimental violation is a quite strong evidence for MW, that is QM-without collapse.

To me Bell's inequality experimental violation is a quite strong evidence that reality is not local

I am the one here who will tell you that 3p non locality is only a sound made by your lips and nothing else.

Einstein was skeptical of the collapse of the wave because it introduce non locality, and non covariance. I think he is right. 3p non locality is telepathy or spooky action at a distance. It does not make sense to me.




or not realistic or not either.




MWI is not local

Proof? The violation of Bell's inequality implies non locality for a realist interpretation of QM+collapse. When collapse never happens, all that occur comes from local interaction and interference, spreading at speed less than c.




so it could be correct, and emotionally it is my favorite interpretation, but logically I must admit that it is not the only interpretation that could be correct. Much as I dislike Copenhagen the fact is it's non-realistic so the violation of Bell's inequality is not rule it out. But Einstein's idea that things are realistic and local (and deterministic too although determinism was less important to Einstein than realism or locality) IS ruled out.

Proof?

Quantum indeterminacy and quantum non locality are pure first person plural "illusion" (subjective, first person) in Everett.

3p determinism was as much important than 3p locality for Einstein. "God does not play dice". He will keep that idea all his life. This is well known.

There is few doubt, for me, that, like most cosmologist, he would have preferred many worlds than anything non deterministic or non local. I think (even more so after the reading of Jammer's book on Einstein's religion).

Bruno




  John K Clark





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