Hi,

Someone wrote, not sure if it was Terren or Bruno:



> "...
> 
> from their own 1-1 points of view, they are in the UD*, and will follow
> the path with the greater measure.
> "
>



This looks like some form of a self-selection!? It essence, any observer
having a 1p means that it will always exist in the center of maximum
likelihood for its existence.

Am I missing something here?



On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 13 Jan 2014, at 17:53, Terren Suydam wrote:
>
> Hi Bruno,
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 3:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11 Jan 2014, at 14:05, Terren Suydam wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Bruno,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately I don't have enough familiarity with the math to follow
>>> you here. It is something I'd like to become fluent in one of these days
>>> but unfortunately I barely have enough time these days to read this list.
>>>
>>>  OK. Good book are Mendelson, Boolos and Jeffrey (and Burgess), etc.
>> Unfortunately they asks for a lot ow work. Logic is the less known branch
>> of math. The beginning *seems* easy, but is not (unlike computability
>> theiory).
>>
>>
> Thanks.
>
>>
>>
>>  However one thing still nags me. I don't find it hard to imagine that
>>> given enough computational power, we could simulate a universe with
>>> alternative physics, that leads within the simulation to intelligent,
>>> conscious life forms, eventually.
>>>
>>>  The simulated agent will be conscious in the 3-1 sense, but we will
>> have to "manipulate them infinitely" to fail them. Indeed they can read and
>> think like us, do the UD-Argument, and find the comp-physics, and compare
>> it with their artificial physics, and their choice will be that either they
>> are indeed in a normal simulation, or that comp is false. But we will have
>> ourself an infinite task to fail them. If not they will soon or later find
>> the discrepancies.
>>
>>
> I don't see why... see below.
>
>
>
> OK
>
>
>
>
>>
>>  So Glak appears in our simulation. And if we can simulate it, well, it's
>>> already in the UD*, as well as the infinite computations going through
>>> Glak's state.
>>>
>>>  Bur from their own 1-1 points of view, they are in the UD*, and will
>> follow the path with the greater measure.
>> They will not "stay" in the simulation. That will happen only in our 3-1
>> view (or 1-3-1 views).
>>
>>
>>
>>  The only way I can resolve this with your reply is that I fear you have
>>> to say conscious beings cannot exist in alternative physics simulations,
>>> but I'd love to be wrong here.
>>>
>>>  They can, from our points of view, but they will find themselves in the
>> most common computations in the UD* which pass through their states.
>> Those people stays in the simulation, only from our points of view, and
>> this asks infinite word from our part if we want them to stay failed by our
>> simulation. Their situation is similar with the stochastically rare witness
>> of a quantum suicide surviver. He survived with probability 1, from their
>> own view, but with probability near 0 for their witness (in iterated
>> quantum suicides).
>>
>>
> If we are able to simulate a universe with alternate physics
>
>
> I can make sense of that.
>
>
>
> that gives rise to Glak (and there may be an infinity of different such
> universes),
>
>
> This means that your simulation of the alternate physics emulates Glak at
> the right level, or below.
>
> But Glak, from his "real" perspective belongs to *all* computations in the
> UD* going through his state.
>
> That is the real physics! And you cannot simulate it, a priori, as it is
> given by an infinite sum on all computations.
>
>
>
> then that simulation exists in the UD*.
>
>
> That one, yes, but also all this others. And Glak's physics is determined,
> below its own level, by all the simulations, not just the one you do.
>
>
>
>
> And of course, the UD* also contains an infinity of continuations
> simulating that alternative physics,
>
> and of course Glak.
>
>
>
> By the first person consciousness invariance, Glak, from his perspective,
> is confronted with the "real physics" below its subst level. It is the same
> for all machines, unless someone fail them in normal worlds (like us here).
> So, if the law of alternate physics are different from the laws of the
> comp-physics, Glak will see that. He might conclude that comp is false, or
> that he belongs to a normal reality simulating an alternate physics.
>
>
>
>  So it's not clear to me that the measure of that alternative physics
> would be so small as to make it obvious that the alternative physics would
> be a "white rabbit world".
>
>
>
> In this case, it is not a white rabbit world. Like in a video game, you
> can decide to avoid white rabbits, and to have reasonable alternate
> physical laws.
>
> So Glak can be conscious in the alternative physics, but unless you
> intervene to manipulate the mind of Glak, if he is Löbian enough (which is
> a consequence of being self-referentially correct and believing in
> arithmetic), he will know that he is in alternate physics.
>
> With comp physics is determined by the existence of the substitution level
> and the math of what happens below. It is the result of the indeterminacy
> below it. It is the same for all machines.
>
> Ask if not clear, I have to go.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> Terren
>
>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>



-- 

Kindest Regards,

Stephen Paul King

Senior Researcher

Mobile: (864) 567-3099

stephe...@provensecure.com

 http://www.provensecure.us/


“This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of
the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain
information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as
attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message
immediately.”

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to