On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
> Sigh.... Now we have several people complaining because I haven't offered
> a 'formal theory'.
A first (and great) step would be just to explain in clear normal language
(no jargon) what you assume, and what you derive from those assumptions.
You don't have to give us a bunch of equations.
> However not a single one of the complainers has themselves offered a
> formal theory even though they are continually offering theories of their
> own, none of which are formalized. Is that fair?
> The only person on this group who has a formal theory that I'm aware of is
> Bruno. No one else? You don't have one of your own but you are criticizing
> me because I don't have one?
> What you guys don't seem to understand is that whether a theory accurately
> describes reality or not is a much more important criterion than whether
> that theory is formalized or not. Physics described reality quite
> accurately for years before it reached its current degree of formalization
> and that's why it was accepted.
> Doesn't really matter whether you have a formal theory or not if there is
> no connection to reality now does there? Bruno's theory is apparently quite
> tightly formalized but I see none of the required actual consistency with
> reality to indicate it actually applies to reality at all.
> Bruno's theory may itself be logically consistent, but I see no
> consistency with actual reality. Mine on the other hand is entirely
> consistent with actual reality because it clearly states that the
> computations of its computational reality are precisely what is actually
> necessary to compute the real processes of nature, whatever they are.
> Bruno's on the other hand makes the wild and unsubstantiated assumption
> that all possible math is 'out there' in reality somehow even if it's doing
> nothing. A very improbable assumption there is no empirical evidence for
> whatsoever. Doesn't matter in the least if the logical consequences of that
> initial assumption are tight and valid (a formalized theory) if the
> assumption itself isn't.
> I just hope you guys understand what I'm saying is a basis of scientific
> method. Doesn't matter so much if a theory is formalized. What matters is
> its explanatory power and consistency with actually observed phenomena.
> My theory on the other hand takes
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 4:52:34 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
>> On 14 January 2014 04:31, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>> It's not 'ideal monism'. Trying to shoehorn it won't help you understand
>>> Just take the pure information content of everything that exists out of
>>> the 'things'. You have pure information. Now assume that information is
>>> continually evolving to compute the current state of reality. Where does it
>>> exist and evolve? Not in a physical world, but in the presence of reality
>>> itself. Only because there is something that exists called reality which
>>> supports these computations do they become real and actual...
>> Ooh, "It from bit!"
>> If you want to take the pure information content out of things, you have
>> to explain what that means. Try a simple example. An electron, perhaps? The
>> information content is an electric charge, a mass, a spin. I think that's
>> all, isn't it? So, what does it mean for that information to be extracted,
>> where does it live, how does it evolve, etc? Over to you!
>> We can move on to "the presence of reality itself" once we have a formal
>> definition or worked examples (or SOMETHING) for the information part.
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