On 14 January 2014 19:42, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 1/13/2014 10:18 PM, LizR wrote:
> On 14 January 2014 19:08, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>   On 1/13/2014 10:00 PM, LizR wrote:
>>  On 14 January 2014 17:11, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>  That will come as a shock to the programmers who write AI for computer
>>> games.  It's the part that allows the computer to beat you.
>>  I know the gaming industry uses the term for characters in games, but
>> I've been assuming that in this sort of discussion, "artificial
>> intelligence" means a conscious computer programme. If we're going to have
>> different usages then matters will get even more confused, or at least I
>> will.
>>  I think it's just a difference of degree or scope of the AI.
>  Hm, I'd say quite a big difference between a character in a game and
> HAL9000.
>>  As John Clark likes to say "Consciousness is easy.  Intelligence is
>> hard."
>>  Well, it is for humans! For computers it seems to be the other way
> around.
> But how do you know that?  How do you know your computer isn't conscious?
> Sure some programs it runs are so simple you can feel sure they're not
> conscious (at least not human like).  But what about a really complex game
> program with adaptive learning?

I don't know for sure. It doesn't seem very likely, but then many
scientific results are counter-intuitive. "Dial F for Frankenstein" and all

>   (I take it you aren't talking about the New Zealand satirist of
> (almost) that name...)
>  For the purposes of this discussion, can we restrict AI to a conscious
> computer (or computer programme), if we want to go off on a tangent about
> what counts as an AI maybe that needs its own thread.
> I don't think that's a good idea because aside from intelligent
> (human-like) behavior, we have no way to recognize whether a given AI is
> conscious or not.  What counts as AI is clear, or at least testable.  What
> should count as conscious is not.
> So you don't think a discussion of what counts as an AI is a good idea?
OK, that's fine by me (you're the one who wants to discuss it, after all!)

So let's just assume it's possible, since it's presumably a consequence of
Edgar's theory, that a computer could be conscious, and go back to the
original discussion.


We were talking about whether a person can always know if they are in a
simulated reality. Suppose the person is an AI inside a simulation. Would
they necessarily know it was a simulation?

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