On 1/13/2014 6:43 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,
Jesus Brent don't you understand basic English syntax and logic, or are you being
purposefully dense?
I never said "there is only one POSSIBLE world",
You wrote below, "No, there are NOT many POSSIBLE worlds." We're pretty sure there's one
possible world - since we're in it. So either there's just one possible world (this
one). Or there is more than one possible world. So which is it? You're the one
contradicting yourself here.
I clearly stated there is only one ACTUAL world and many actual simulations of that
world in the minds of biological organisms. I even put the words POSSIBLE and ACTUAL in
caps to make it easy to understand.
Pay attention to your own logic. Stating there is only one actual world is compatible with
that being the only possible world, or one world actualized out of many possible - hence
my question. I now take that you think there are more possible worlds than the actual one
we experience. Is that how you allow for quantum randomness: one possible world is
realized from the random ensemble that QM predicts?
Of course that doesn't completely falsify pink rabbits or any other kind of alternate
realty but there is no evidence for those things. Now you are criticizing my theory
because it doesn't explain things for which there is no evidence whatsoever? Get real!
Where did I criticize your theory (except the relativity part)? I just asked
questions.
I'll let you spend your time constructing theories to explain what there is no evidence
for if you like. I have better things to do...
But when there are multiple possible worlds but only one actual world, then a theory of
everything needs to explain why only the one is actual. Maybe that's beyond your theory,
which is OK; not every theory has to be a theory of everything.
Brent
Edgar
On Monday, January 13, 2014 9:16:30 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 1/13/2014 6:03 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,
No, there are NOT many POSSIBLE worlds.
So there is only one possible world. That would seem to imply the world is
determinstic. How do you account for quantum randomness? Are you assuming
hidden
variables or hyperdeterminism?
There are many ACTUAL simulations of a single computational reality, and
all of
those simulations are not arbitrary sci fi scenarios but solidly based in
the
actual logic of reality at least in their essentials. Because these are
real world
views of real biological organisms. They have to be accurate in their
essentials
for the organisms to exist and function.
Yes that's all very well. We and other beings model the world in our
minds. And (we
hope) those models are accurate. But that does not logically entail that
there
cannot be other worlds with different physics and different beings making
mental
models of it. Are you just asserting it as a contingent fact, or do you
have some
argument that only this world with its physics is possible?
I find it difficult to understand how you would think I believe in "many
possible
worlds with alternative physics, etc." when I've consistently argued just
the opposite.
So far as I can tell you've never argued that this is the only possible world.
You've just asserted that it is real and everything real is in it. That doesn't
logically entail that no other "real" worlds are possible.
Brent
Edgar
On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:42:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 1/13/2014 4:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
> Terren,
>
> No, it's not that simple as I thought I had explained. You have to
consider
not just
> what is happening in the simulated being's 'mind' or simulation but
the whole
context of
> the simulation. I'll try again. Even if a simulated world is entirely
convincing in the
> short term it still MUST exist in the actual reality, and if it is
not in
accordance
> with the actual logic of that actual reality it will quickly or
eventually
fail. The
> real being must exist somewhere else and be receiving nutrients etc.
in a
real actual
> reality with which it is in logical synch with.
So you're saying that although there are many possible world's
(alternative
physics, etc)
that can exist in simulations, only one of these is real. Which raises
the
question, why
this one?
Brent
>
> Thus you can't have just any old arbitrary fake simulation running or
the
simulated
> being will quickly die in the real actual reality in which it MUST
have an
actual
> existence. So there will always be a way to tell if the reality you
live in
is simulated
> or not. If you actually exist then at least the basics must be in
accord with
actual
> reality.
>
> Of course, as you suggest, there are many non-essential ways a
simulation can
be wrong
> and the subject still function, but no essential ones. No matter how
simulated an
> internal reality is it still must exist in a real actual reality and
this
will always
> eventually give a false simulation away when it is tested against
actual
reality by the
> test of whether it is consistent with the continued existence and
functioning
of the
> subject.
>
> Edgar
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