On 1/13/2014 6:03 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,

No, there are NOT many POSSIBLE worlds.

So there is only one possible world. That would seem to imply the world is determinstic. How do you account for quantum randomness? Are you assuming hidden variables or hyperdeterminism?

There are many ACTUAL simulations of a single computational reality, and all of those simulations are not arbitrary sci fi scenarios but solidly based in the actual logic of reality at least in their essentials. Because these are real world views of real biological organisms. They have to be accurate in their essentials for the organisms to exist and function.

Yes that's all very well. We and other beings model the world in our minds. And (we hope) those models are accurate. But that does not logically entail that there cannot be other worlds with different physics and different beings making mental models of it. Are you just asserting it as a contingent fact, or do you have some argument that only this world with its physics is possible?


I find it difficult to understand how you would think I believe in "many possible worlds with alternative physics, etc." when I've consistently argued just the opposite.

So far as I can tell you've never argued that this is the only possible world. You've just asserted that it is real and everything real is in it. That doesn't logically entail that no other "real" worlds are possible.

Brent


Edgar



On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:42:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

    On 1/13/2014 4:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
    > Terren,
    >
    > No, it's not that simple as I thought I had explained. You have to 
consider not just
    > what is happening in the simulated being's 'mind' or simulation but the 
whole
    context of
    > the simulation. I'll try again. Even if a simulated world is entirely 
convincing
    in the
    > short term it still MUST exist in the actual reality, and if it is not in 
accordance
    > with the actual logic of that actual reality it will quickly or 
eventually fail. The
    > real being must exist somewhere else and be receiving nutrients etc. in a 
real actual
    > reality with which it is in logical synch with.

    So you're saying that although there are many possible world's (alternative 
physics,
    etc)
    that can exist in simulations, only one of these is real.  Which raises the
    question, why
    this one?

    Brent

    >
    > Thus you can't have just any old arbitrary fake simulation running or the 
simulated
    > being will quickly die in the real actual reality in which it MUST have 
an actual
    > existence. So there will always be a way to tell if the reality you live 
in is
    simulated
    > or not. If you actually exist then at least the basics must be in accord 
with actual
    > reality.
    >
    > Of course, as you suggest, there are many non-essential ways a simulation 
can be
    wrong
    > and the subject still function, but no essential ones. No matter how 
simulated an
    > internal reality is it still must exist in a real actual reality and this 
will always
    > eventually give a false simulation away when it is tested against actual 
reality
    by the
    > test of whether it is consistent with the continued existence and 
functioning of the
    > subject.
    >
    > Edgar

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