On 21 Jan 2014, at 17:34, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Bruno,
You continue to avoid the actual question. How does a static reality
of all true arithmetic in Platonia actually result in change and the
flow of time? You just claim "everyone knows it".
Where. I just said (see below) that "everybody knows it" is never an
argument. You misread me. On the contrary I said that I can explain
it, but then it is long. Then, I point on the literature, and mention
that the fact that arithmetic is Turing complete is known by experts.
Do you agree that arithmetic emulates all computations? I guess not.
Until you can give a convincing answer to that your theory can't be
taken seriously.....
By who? I have never have any problem with that. On the contrary, most
physicists already believe that the theory of relativity go in that
direction (even more so in Gödel's solution of Einstein's GR equation,
with looping time.
I can give you an answer, except I am not sure you will study it. I
will explain it to you when you answer the questions I asked about
your theory. What does it assume, and how do you use it to prevent the
UD Argument to proceed?
Just claiming that different observers have different perspectives
on that reality doesn't make those perspectives active, they would
still be static.
Seen from the big picture (arithmetical truth) you are right. Seen
from the perspective of the internal creatures, you are wrong, at
least in the sense, that those creatures have all reason to infer time
and space, etc. They will talk about that like you and me.
Do you think that a machine can distinguish "being a living person
inhabiting on Earth", and "being a living person on Earth" emulated on
some computer, or in arithmetic.
And of course block time has the exact same problem....
"of course" is a symptom of lack of argument.
You are just looking at the 3p picture, and not at the 1p views of the
entities in that 3p reality. You could as well say that a brain has no
relation with consciousness, as there is no 1p sensations observed
when we look at a brain. But comp associates consciousness, including
consciousness of time to the 1p that we can associate to computation.
That's a complex relation between number and truth about number, ans
it cannot be described in any 3p view.
Do you agree that if we simulate today, your brain evolution of
yesterday, you will feel today the 1p moment of yesterday? is that not
enough to doubt that the notion of absolute 1p moment makes sense?
Bruno
PS I am late in some work, so I might take time to answer the next
posts.
Edgar
On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 7:33:50 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 19 Jan 2014, at 23:10, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Bruno,
To answer your questions sequentially.
I don't see any way "the arithmetical true relations" compute or
emulate anything.
I agree this is not obvious. But it is "known" by all experts in the
field.
That is already present in Gödel 1931, and today we know that even
just one diophantine (on integeres) polynomial of degree four can
emulated all computations; or be Turing universal.
They just sit there motionless and nothing happens.
But that is not a problem for those who accept a relativistic or
indexical notion of time. You seems to believe that such a notion is
contradictory. But well, it is, with the assumption of a present
time. But that is already contradictory with the comp's consequence.
You haven't explained how motion arises from non-motion and no one
else here understands that either.
Many understand this. beyond this, the number of people who
understand an argument has no role in the argument itself.
"Everybody knows that ..." is never an argument.
Reality is one continuous program
I guess you mean active program. I is the activity which is
continued, not the program. OK?
but every information element actively computes its evolution.
?
Which program is it? It's the program that it is of course.
?
You seem to think there are a bunches of software reality can pick
off some magical shelf and run.
I assume that the brain or body, in some general sense, can be
emulated by a computer. then the emulation is in arithmetic (as
arithmetic is provably Turing complete (the well known non obvious
fact that I can explain if you ask)), then it is the consciousness
which pick up its local possible software among all those already
active (relatively) in arithmetic.
<div
...
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