On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:10:30 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: > > On 30 January 2014 12:45, Craig Weinberg <[email protected] <javascript:> > > wrote: > >> On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:38:22 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >> >>> On 30 January 2014 12:32, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:22:43 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 30 January 2014 12:21, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:13:35 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 30 January 2014 12:09, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01:19 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 30 January 2014 11:39, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:38:04 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 30 January 2014 11:24, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:34:48 PM UTC-5, John Clark >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Craig Weinberg < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > NO ROOM CAN BE CONSCIOUS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And we know that because we can say it in all capital letters, >>>>>>>>>>>>> or possibly from the teachings of two of your favorite subjects, >>>>>>>>>>>>> astrology >>>>>>>>>>>>> and numerology. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The all caps were in response to Bruno's all caps, and no, you >>>>>>>>>>>> don't need astrology and numerology to understand that rooms are >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> haunted by the spirits of system-hood. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Imagine a small, roughly spherical room made out of a fairly >>>>>>>>>>> hard material something like limestone. Make a few holes in it, >>>>>>>>>>> fill it >>>>>>>>>>> with some goop with the consistency of blancmange, decorate with >>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>> organs and throw in a body. >>>>>>>>>>> Et voila! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Voila, a cadaver. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Unless *all *such objects are cadavers, this "disproves" the >>>>>>>>> statement that *no *room can be conscious. >>>>>>>>> (I must admit the idea that "no room can be conscious" seems to >>>>>>>>> demand qualification...) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All such objects would be cadavers, in the absence of some >>>>>>>> subjective experience which is being expressed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> What about anaesthesia and dreamless sleep? >>>>>>> >>>>>> Our personal level of awareness is not the totality of the awareness >>>>>> that our lives consist of. We sleep, but if we have to pee, who wakes us >>>>>> up >>>>>> so we don't wet the bed? >>>>>> >>>>> So all such objects aren't cadavers. >>>>> >>>> If you are unconscious, you don't personally exist, but you exist >>>> sub-personally and super-personally. A body has microscopic and >>>> macroscopic >>>> scales, but those are only from the perspective which is available through >>>> our body, and its use of other bodies. The difference between a cadaver >>>> and >>>> a living person's body is not within the body, it is within experience. >>>> It's aesthetic, not functional. Although the functional and aesthetic >>>> perspectives can influence each other, as the cart can influence the >>>> behavior of the horse, the cart is ultimately dependent on the horse >>>> rather >>>> than the other way around. >>>> >>> >>> One difference between an unconscious body and a dead one is that you >>> can return an unconscious one to consciousness later. >>> That sounds kind of functional to me. >>> >> >> It's only functional if you assume that consciousness has value beyond >> the operation of the body. The condition of being able to return though is >> not necessarily part of the body. I can leave my house and the house will >> fall into disrepair eventually, but that doesn't mean that I am part of my >> house, or that there is some quality of my house which equals the fact of >> my presence in it. >> > > The quality is being in a state of good repair, surely? >
I could be in my house and still let it fall apart. The house could also be damaged to the point where I decide to leave, of no fault of my own. There is correlation, but not cause. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
