On 8/6/2014 7:02 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 3:58 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
What does level of substitution have to do with it. You've defined the
correct level
substitution as one below which consciousness is unchanged. So the the
definition
already requires that we know what it means for a consciousness to be the
same, i.e.
unchanged.
Then the 1p recognizance criteria is very simple. All the copies are
declared the
same person as the one copied, except that now they differentiate.
And that can help to understand that we are all already the same person,
having
multiplied and differentiate.
I guess it would if I were a copy of somebody.
Then computer science shows that there is indeed a universal notion of first
person, given by the knowability (non arithmetic) operator, provided by the
definition of knowledge by Theaetetus.
Having a notion of person doesn't imply that all persons are the same
person.
I don't see why all the convolution in this thread around ambiguity of notion of person
is required. It just makes unnecessarily complex what seems ambiguous at the start.
Assume some emergence phenomenon and you risk reductionism at fundamental problem of
identity, and the usual fascisms of discrimination can follow. Assume some universal
person and you aren't a step further dealing with problems of evil and difference.
What "universal person" has that "emergence" doesn't is a reason to foster empathy in
fundamental/primitive sense, underneath some utility derivative from evolution, as is
the case with some emergence interpretations. But does this even matter?
The Bee Gees made approximation of stating this ambiguity and sold millions of records
with the kitschy:
How deep is your love
I really need to learn
'Cause we're living in a world of fools
Breaking us down
When they all should let us be
We belong to you and me
And because it's a kitschy song, no need to take literally or feel smart :-)
Like Telmo said, if I recall correctly, it's super easy to fall into taking sides on
these issues without knowing it... which I guess I do too.
emergence->reductionism->fascism wholism->empathy Yeah, I guess you do. But you
overlook that the fascists regarded the state as a superorganism so that each person was
part of the same "being", while the liberal democracies held that individuals are the
locus of values.
Brent
Thus don't really have anything solid to say about these things + wonder if it matters
at all. No smart-ass "hehe, those guys are definitely idiots compared to my privileged
position of experience and knowledge, stupid dreamers/factualists/realists/emergence
materialists etc." from here... which just covers up the ambiguity for some security
ruse in the mirror the speaker holds up to themselves in some funk. PGC
Brent
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