Bruno, Could you explain again why a measure is needed in Everettian Many World Theories? Your 1p observer requirement for measure suggests that the physical came from life. I have asked you this before and your response is that the universe would still evolve but "weakly", whatever that means, in the absence of observers.
The requirement for observers in my mind makes comp equivalent to the Copenhagen Interpretation CI in the need for conscious observers and is falsified along with CI for that reason. Richard On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 19 Aug 2014, at 03:37, John Mikes wrote: > > On 8/18/2014 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The laws will always assured the existence of computations in which you > survive, and have that quantum MW aspects, but in some consciousness state > we might live some "phase transition" between different physical realms. > Obviously, we cannot get a physical reality in which there is no observers > at all. > > > Why not? Are you saying there must have been observers in the early > universe, even before the recombination? Must there be observers observing > the interior of stars for them to be "physically real"? What does > "physically real" mean in your theory? > > Brent > -------------------------- > Physically real is our religion as 'lately human scientists' where theory > is god. > > > Hmm.... Physically *primitive* is the (aristotelian) theology of most > scientists and philosophers, sometimes not realizing that it is a theology. > > Theory = hypotheses, without which there is no science (= doubt). > > > > > It comes through the (development)evolution of us, humans into a > "know-it-all"- all explaining animal. > BTW in my agnosticism (sorry, Bruno) the OBSERVER is *anything* that > observes - i.e. notices *anything* at all. > > > It is too vague, so I agree by default. I prefer to ask for a universal > number, just to fix the thing, but both with comp and with Everett QM, we > can extend the notion of observer greatly. No problem. > > > > No 'existence' is identifiable without observers, > > > No *physical* 'existence' is identifiable without observers. But the > existence of 17 is independent of us, in any scientific context rich enough > to postulate computationalism. > > > > the world would be a heap of unrelated singularities by/for themselves. > > > Why? > > > > No arithmetix either! > > > Then you are not agnostic on the computationalist hypothesis. By some > miracle, a bit like Craig, you seem to believe that you know that comp is > false. I am agnostic, and will be, as long as comp is not refuted. > > Bruno > > > > > John M > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 2:28 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 8/18/2014 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> The laws will always assured the existence of computations in which you >> survive, and have that quantum MW aspects, but in some consciousness state >> we might live some "phase transition" between different physical realms. >> Obviously, we cannot get a physical reality in which there is no observers >> at all. >> >> >> Why not? Are you saying there must have been observers in the early >> universe, even before the recombination? Must there be observers observing >> the interior of stars for them to be "physically real"? What does >> "physically real" mean in your theory? >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
