On 20 Aug 2014, at 15:42, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Bruno,
Could you explain again why a measure is needed in Everettian Many
World Theories?
To justify the probability used with the Born Rule (asssuming the SWE,
QM)
In comp, we don't assume QM, but we need a measure to justify the
stability of the physical laws, or the invariant in the observations.
Your 1p observer requirement for measure suggests that the physical
came from life.
Hmm... Life of the numbers, in a different sense that "terrestrial
life".
I have asked you this before and your response is that the universe
would still evolve
but "weakly", whatever that means, in the absence of observers.
?
I don't remember.
All this is justified by the UDA, in the comp (not related a priori to
QM) frame.
The requirement for observers in my mind makes comp equivalent to
the Copenhagen Interpretation CI
in the need for conscious observers and is falsified along with CI
for that reason.
We assume comp, which requires consciousness by definition. Then the
TOE is given by two little formula like:
Kxy = x
Sxyz = xz(yz)
And nothing more. I could take only addition and multiplication of
natural numbers.
You might miss something in the UDA, which should answer your question.
Bruno
Richard
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 19 Aug 2014, at 03:37, John Mikes wrote:
On 8/18/2014 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
The laws will always assured the existence of computations in
which you survive, and have that quantum MW aspects, but in some
consciousness state we might live some "phase transition" between
different physical realms. Obviously, we cannot get a physical
reality in which there is no observers at all.
Why not? Are you saying there must have been observers in the
early universe, even before the recombination? Must there be
observers observing the interior of stars for them to be
"physically real"? What does "physically real" mean in your theory?
Brent
--------------------------
Physically real is our religion as 'lately human scientists' where
theory is god.
Hmm.... Physically *primitive* is the (aristotelian) theology of
most scientists and philosophers, sometimes not realizing that it is
a theology.
Theory = hypotheses, without which there is no science (= doubt).
It comes through the (development)evolution of us, humans into a
"know-it-all"- all explaining animal.
BTW in my agnosticism (sorry, Bruno) the OBSERVER is anything that
observes - i.e. notices anything at all.
It is too vague, so I agree by default. I prefer to ask for a
universal number, just to fix the thing, but both with comp and with
Everett QM, we can extend the notion of observer greatly. No problem.
No 'existence' is identifiable without observers,
No *physical* 'existence' is identifiable without observers. But the
existence of 17 is independent of us, in any scientific context rich
enough to postulate computationalism.
the world would be a heap of unrelated singularities by/for
themselves.
Why?
No arithmetix either!
Then you are not agnostic on the computationalist hypothesis. By
some miracle, a bit like Craig, you seem to believe that you know
that comp is false. I am agnostic, and will be, as long as comp is
not refuted.
Bruno
John M
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 2:28 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 8/18/2014 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
The laws will always assured the existence of computations in
which you survive, and have that quantum MW aspects, but in some
consciousness state we might live some "phase transition" between
different physical realms. Obviously, we cannot get a physical
reality in which there is no observers at all.
Why not? Are you saying there must have been observers in the
early universe, even before the recombination? Must there be
observers observing the interior of stars for them to be
"physically real"? What does "physically real" mean in your theory?
Brent
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