On 29 Nov 2014, at 09:44, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Nov 2014, at 01:39, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/28/2014 12:53 PM, LizR wrote:
On 29 November 2014 at 04:42, John Clark <[email protected]>
wrote:
Kim Jones:
>> Yes but tell me of the examples you have found of Evolution
producing intelligence without consciousness.
> iPhones. Smart fridges. Self-driving cars. Computers. Space
probes etc. etc.
If you believe all these things are smart then fine, but what
makes you think they're not conscious?
Because the deisgners didn't include a consciousness module, of
course! :-)
Or maybe because John (and Bruno and me and probably you) use
different definitions of "conscious". Is it:
1) Awareness = appropriate goal-directed response to some aspects
of the surroundings
I disagree. Awareness is only a form of knowledge, it can exist with
appropriate response.
I meant "it can exist without appropriate response".
Sorry.
Bruno
2) Intelligence = learning and adapting behavior based on experience
OK. based on first person experience, which needs some consciousness.
3) Using symbolic reasoning (language) = to decide among
hypothetical actions
4) Having an inner narrative?
Those needs Löbianity, which comes with the []p -> [][]p, which
comes from the belief in the induction axioms. Such machine will be
Löbian, and will know it.
Bruno
Brent
When Evolution made information processing devices it found it was
much much easier to produce emotion than intelligence, so why in
the world would we find the exact opposite to be true when we make
the same sort of thing?
One possible answer - because evolution is working to a different
set of criteria.
Another possible answer - because evolution used trial and error
over millions of years rather than designing what was needed to do
a specific job.
Another possible answer - because evolution used different
materials, and a different architecture (wetware operates very
differently from electronic hardware).
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