Dear Bruno, allow me NOT to copy your post (and mine!) just picking parts for reflections. Thanks for recognising my post.
*"Prohibition is enough to kill capitalism, and democracy in the long run."* I argued that there is no such thing as that darn 'democracy' - so how should prohibition (and what kind of?) kill it? *"Working more and more, for less and less money, that is the problem."* One of them. The bank CEO with a horrendous pay is also culprit for all the vices called 'democracy' (in US: capitalism!). Money is a fantastic invention. I deny the "48%" voting result just as e.g. a 50.1% - the 'voters' (the part of the authorized populace who indeed cast a vote) are misinfomed and gullible - a reason why MONEY (and lies?) can buy the votes (see: US system). If a 'swing'-minority can make a 'majority' power that does not improve the situation from false to true. Let me skip an analysis of a bi-national kingdom, or an authoritarian-powered religious state. Maybe another time. Your exhortation about the questins of democracy sounds to me like a pius wish-dream. Nobody (so far) could change the systems of the powerful by reason. I like your bon-mot about the blood/cancer. I try to talk common sense. John M On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 04 Jan 2015, at 22:55, John Mikes wrote: > > I published several times on various lists - including this one - my > <agnostic?> stance about that > *OXYMORON *'democracy' called so because the 'demos' (i.e. all of us) > cannot exercise 'kratos' > (governing power) to everyone's satisfaction in the variety we represent > genetically, mentally, in interests and taste, lifestyle etc. etc. > I added the *HOAX *of "majority voting" because 1. a 'majority' involves > a suppressed minority and the 'voting' does not mean agreement, just lesser > dissatisfaction in the expressed *L I E S of a campaign* > to make the candidate more palatable to the voting crowd. Such lies are > not even pretended to be kept once the candidate gets the power and it is > pretty hard to get rid of someone with a majority voting record. > > I also expressed in no uncertain terms that autocratic (religious, > communist/socialist, fascist) systems are not prone to any distinction of a > *democratic* rule (if we condone such). > We can add the capitalistic economical systems to that, constituting the > rule of a minority (owners?) over a vast majority of employed (working) > segment of the populace - which can be (mutatis mutandis) a form of slavery > in pretentious, more humanitarian formulation. > > Democracy-(like) governance has never been istigated in any country. Lenin > (the philosopher) said to establish a 'communistic' state a new-type MAN > has to be developed with selfless benevolence to work for the community. > Same for the elusive democracy. > > Such are the reasons why I call 'capitalism' dead by the 1970s and name > the resulting system a > > > Prohibition is enough to kill capitalism, and democracy in the long run. > > > > Global-Ecoomic-Feudal format with Lords (owners) and Serfs (employees - > working for MONEY, no matter how much). > > > Working more and more, for less and less money, that is the problem. > > It is false to say that democracy is a tyranny of the majority. Sometimes > democracy leads to to a tyranny of a minority. This happens when there are > two big parties (left and right, say), and each get 48% which let a little > party who got the remaining 4%, sometimes an alliance of the left and right > extremist, which will be able to decide when going to the right and when > going to the left. This has happened in Israel and in my country > (Beligium). > > All argument against democracy looks to me like cells complaining about > blood because it feeds cancer. > > To me, democracy is the minimal amount for having a system capable of > oscillating between left and right, and avoid the pitfall of extremism and > special interests. > > Democracies, like living organism can be get ill and even die, but > non-democracy gives soon or later the power to the most violent and the > liars. Politicians always lie, but in a democracy you have the right to say > so, you might have difficulties to be eared, but you can create a party or > just vote for a different politicians next time, when the democracy works > enough well, of course. > > With democracies you can try different stupidities every four years. > With tyrannies you can try different stupidities every four millenaries. > > Democracies can be improved (which is nice, even if this make them also > capable of being perverted) > Tyrannies are perverted at the start. > > Bruno > > > JM > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:39 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 1/3/2015 7:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 03 Jan 2015, at 09:28, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [ >> mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Bruno Marchal >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 01, 2015 3:36 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Democracy >> >> >> On 31 Dec 2014, at 20:12, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [ >> mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Bruno Marchal >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:34 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Democracy >> >> >> On 30 Dec 2014, at 01:38, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >> *From:* Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >> *To:* everything-list <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Monday, December 29, 2014 10:27 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Democracy >> >> >>The Soviet union can be formally considered a "democracy". There >> is nothing external or formal that may distinguish a democracy from any >> other regime. Since every modern state has the same elements. All of them >> use the momenclature of the age. The word democracy is the most overused >> world in this century togeter with "scientific". >> >> No word comes close to matching the overuse of the word "god" however. >> >> >> Yes, ... and no. >> >> For the greeks "God" was just a pointer to the truth we are searching, >> through theories and observation. It led to math and physics, + inquiry >> about which one is more fundamental, and what might still be beyond math >> and physics. That use of God remains in some language expression, like when >> we say "only God knows", which means "I don't know". >> >> But that is how the word was used in the Hellenistic period; I was >> referring to modern usage that has associated it with a monotheistic value >> system. >> >> >> I think monotheism is only the "personal" view of the monism of the >> parmenides one. >> I think that the theology of the christians and jews reflect the monism >> of those who believe in an unifying truth. The fairy tales is a pedagogical >> popularization, who get wrong when the religion is (too much) mixed with >> politics. >> >> >> But it necessarily is mixed with politics, it's main function is >> political because the "unifying truths" are the cultural proscriptions >> about behavior and values. God is the law-giver; he's the tyrant writ >> large who sees all, judges all, and rewards and punishes all. The truths >> of mathematics and physics and biology are of little relevance. His >> "truths" are about procreation and war and ethics and loyalty to the tribe. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Which comes from the ONE of the greeks, mixed with the Jewish legend. >> Well, if you forget the superstition, it has some important relation. >> Monotheism is a reflexion of parmenides or Plotinus monism. >> >> Perhaps you are referring to the Jewish mystic concept of the sephiroth >> kether (kether means crown in Hebrew) it is that which is manifest yet >> cannot be named; the first divine emanation out of pure abstract space… >> that is without form or definition yet which fills and animates all >> things…. The divine spark so to speak. >> >> >> I think so. >> >> >> A few examples “a God fearing” man (or woman) is upstanding, >> moral and considered (by other god-fearers at least) to be superior to >> those who do not fear god; >> >> >> But this "fearing of God" is a mystery to me. God should be good. Only >> the devil should be feared. (between us). >> >> >> Unless you are the devil. Unless you don't want to obey God's orders to >> stone adulterers and conquer unbelievers and tithe to the priests. >> >> Brent >> "You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns >> out that God hates all the same people you do." >> - Anne Lamott >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
