On 07 Jan 2015, at 22:54, John Mikes wrote:
Dear Bruno, allow me NOT to copy your post (and mine!) just picking
parts for reflections. Thanks for recognising my post.
"Prohibition is enough to kill capitalism, and democracy in the long
run."
I argued that there is no such thing as that darn 'democracy' - so
how should prohibition (and what kind of?) kill it?
May be you mean by democracy= "ideal working democracy". Then I can
understand it does not exist. But I defined democracy by the more
modest system in which people can vote every 4 yours. thats surely
exist. I am living in one.
By prohibition, I meant prohibition of medication, like alcohol, or
cannabis, or heroïn, or ...
"Working more and more, for less and less money, that is the problem."
One of them. The bank CEO with a horrendous pay is also culprit for
all the vices called 'democracy' (in US: capitalism!). Money is a
fantastic invention.
It is the most efficacious way to distribute wealth and works. Without
it, I would not have been abale to do math as a job.
Money is not a problem, but becomes once when it is based on lies. In
that case it create quickly a social cancer which can kill the
democracy.
I deny the "48%" voting result just as e.g. a 50.1% - the
'voters' (the part of the authorized populace who indeed cast a
vote) are misinfomed and gullible - a reason why MONEY (and lies?)
can buy the votes (see: US system).
Yes, in the UD system, there is too much financial lobbying, and that
seems to be part of the problem, although I tend to believe that the
problem has started with prohibition of alcohol (and then medication).
If a 'swing'-minority can make a 'majority' power that does not
improve the situation from false to true. Let me skip an analysis of
a bi-national kingdom, or an authoritarian-powered religious state.
Maybe another time.
Your exhortation about the questins of democracy sounds to me like a
pius wish-dream. Nobody (so far) could change the systems of the
powerful by reason.
I like your bon-mot about the blood/cancer. I try to talk common
sense.
What would you suggest in place of a democracy?
Bruno
John M
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 04 Jan 2015, at 22:55, John Mikes wrote:
I published several times on various lists - including this one -
my <agnostic?> stance about that
OXYMORON 'democracy' called so because the 'demos' (i.e. all of us)
cannot exercise 'kratos'
(governing power) to everyone's satisfaction in the variety we
represent genetically, mentally, in interests and taste, lifestyle
etc. etc.
I added the HOAX of "majority voting" because 1. a 'majority'
involves a suppressed minority and the 'voting' does not mean
agreement, just lesser dissatisfaction in the expressed L I E S
of a campaign
to make the candidate more palatable to the voting crowd. Such lies
are not even pretended to be kept once the candidate gets the power
and it is pretty hard to get rid of someone with a majority voting
record.
I also expressed in no uncertain terms that autocratic (religious,
communist/socialist, fascist) systems are not prone to any
distinction of a democratic rule (if we condone such).
We can add the capitalistic economical systems to that,
constituting the rule of a minority (owners?) over a vast majority
of employed (working) segment of the populace - which can be
(mutatis mutandis) a form of slavery in pretentious, more
humanitarian formulation.
Democracy-(like) governance has never been istigated in any
country. Lenin (the philosopher) said to establish a 'communistic'
state a new-type MAN has to be developed with selfless benevolence
to work for the community. Same for the elusive democracy.
Such are the reasons why I call 'capitalism' dead by the 1970s and
name the resulting system a
Prohibition is enough to kill capitalism, and democracy in the long
run.
Global-Ecoomic-Feudal format with Lords (owners) and Serfs
(employees - working for MONEY, no matter how much).
Working more and more, for less and less money, that is the problem.
It is false to say that democracy is a tyranny of the majority.
Sometimes democracy leads to to a tyranny of a minority. This
happens when there are two big parties (left and right, say), and
each get 48% which let a little party who got the remaining 4%,
sometimes an alliance of the left and right extremist, which will be
able to decide when going to the right and when going to the left.
This has happened in Israel and in my country (Beligium).
All argument against democracy looks to me like cells complaining
about blood because it feeds cancer.
To me, democracy is the minimal amount for having a system capable
of oscillating between left and right, and avoid the pitfall of
extremism and special interests.
Democracies, like living organism can be get ill and even die, but
non-democracy gives soon or later the power to the most violent and
the liars. Politicians always lie, but in a democracy you have the
right to say so, you might have difficulties to be eared, but you
can create a party or just vote for a different politicians next
time, when the democracy works enough well, of course.
With democracies you can try different stupidities every four years.
With tyrannies you can try different stupidities every four
millenaries.
Democracies can be improved (which is nice, even if this make them
also capable of being perverted)
Tyrannies are perverted at the start.
Bruno
JM
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:39 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 1/3/2015 7:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 03 Jan 2015, at 09:28, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2015 3:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy
On 31 Dec 2014, at 20:12, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy
On 30 Dec 2014, at 01:38, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
wrote:
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Democracy
>>The Soviet union can be formally considered a "democracy".
There is nothing external or formal that may distinguish a
democracy from any other regime. Since every modern state has the
same elements. All of them use the momenclature of the age. The
word democracy is the most overused world in this century togeter
with "scientific".
No word comes close to matching the overuse of the word "god"
however.
Yes, ... and no.
For the greeks "God" was just a pointer to the truth we are
searching, through theories and observation. It led to math and
physics, + inquiry about which one is more fundamental, and what
might still be beyond math and physics. That use of God remains
in some language expression, like when we say "only God knows",
which means "I don't know".
But that is how the word was used in the Hellenistic period; I
was referring to modern usage that has associated it with a
monotheistic value system.
I think monotheism is only the "personal" view of the monism of
the parmenides one.
I think that the theology of the christians and jews reflect the
monism of those who believe in an unifying truth. The fairy tales
is a pedagogical popularization, who get wrong when the religion
is (too much) mixed with politics.
But it necessarily is mixed with politics, it's main function is
political because the "unifying truths" are the cultural
proscriptions about behavior and values. God is the law-giver;
he's the tyrant writ large who sees all, judges all, and rewards
and punishes all. The truths of mathematics and physics and
biology are of little relevance. His "truths" are about
procreation and war and ethics and loyalty to the tribe.
>>Which comes from the ONE of the greeks, mixed with the Jewish
legend. Well, if you forget the superstition, it has some
important relation. Monotheism is a reflexion of parmenides or
Plotinus monism.
Perhaps you are referring to the Jewish mystic concept of the
sephiroth kether (kether means crown in Hebrew) it is that which
is manifest yet cannot be named; the first divine emanation out
of pure abstract space… that is without form or definition yet
which fills and animates all things…. The divine spark so to speak.
I think so.
A few examples “a God fearing” man (or woman) is upstanding,
moral and considered (by other god-fearers at least) to be
superior to those who do not fear god;
But this "fearing of God" is a mystery to me. God should be good.
Only the devil should be feared. (between us).
Unless you are the devil. Unless you don't want to obey God's
orders to stone adulterers and conquer unbelievers and tithe to the
priests.
Brent
"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
- Anne Lamott
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