On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 10:23 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > ------------------------------ > *From:* spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:15 PM > *Subject:* Re: Democracy > > Your mistake is comparing hand grenades to nerve gas. The Zetas want money > and power, while Boko Haram wants money, power, the lust to kill, and > paradise with babes forever. You do not see the Zetas or the Mafia wiping > out a magazine headquarters, nor do we see meth heads becoming suicide > bombers. > > You really don't know much about the Zetas (and other Mexican drug mafias) > do you? Killing journalists, politicians, students, police is something > that has been happening frequently in Mexico. Dude more than 60,000 people > have been killed in Mexico's drug wars; that is a lot of people. > > You are performing the narrative of the Bamer administration because my > pov (based on observation) is offensive to your weltanschauung. Its not > your fault that the Islamists behave in such a way, and neither is it mine. > ISIS is Islam, and says so in its rule books. > > BS, ISIS is not Islam, > Who has the authority to say if ISIS is Islam or not? What does that even mean? Isn't this a bit like discussing who would win a fight between Batman and Superman? If you have a bunch of irrational and self-contradictory set of beliefs (like Christianity and like many other religions) it is not possible to have a rational discussion about who adheres correctly to that set of beliefs or not. In the western world we achieved something fairly close to freedom of speech through centuries of bloody wars and revolutions. It was not trivial to get here, and we gained *so so much* from it that I think we should guard it like a very precious treasure. It is freedom of speech that allowed our science, technology and art to evolve to what we have now. Freedom of speech is an all-or-nothing proposition. Once you open an exception, this exception *will* be explored by the usual suspect. Notice how quickly the Pope jumped at the opportunity to join the "there are limits to free speech" side of the debate. Just when I had almost forgot that the Pope is, in fact, a Catholic. And now we are going to let some weird tribe deprive us of one of the fundamental pillars of our civilisation? Fuck that. I have nothing against any ethnicity or against private religion. I very much have something against those that want us to go back in our civilisation progress. The very same civilisation process that allows many different ethnicities and cultures to coexist in mega-cities with surprisingly little violence of conflict. It's not perfect for sure, but we sure are closer to the Star Trek world than those hell-holes like Arabia Saudita, run by religious creeps, who just sentenced a guy to 1000 lashes (50 lashes every week or until he dies from the brutality) for FUCKING WRITING THINGS IN A BLOG. We must not make any concessions. We are the adults in this matter. The whole world will be better with free speech. If we arrived first then we must resist for the sake of everyone else. Many things offend me. I don't see anyone losing their sleep over this. Nor should they. But we must be careful not to offend the religious? Why? I can only think of two reasons: - I am considered inferior to the religious, they enjoy rights that I don't enjoy; - The religious are considered mentally challenged, so they must be patronised. Can you think of another explanation, or do you agree that "we must be careful not to offend" must necessarily be because one of the above reasons? Telmo. > and the fact that you keep insisting that it somehow represents Islam > exposes your own prejudicial views. > > Think of the comparison of how Christianity behaved say, from 325-1945, > with wars, slaughters, racism, hatred, and all those other fun things. > > And yet Doctors are getting murdered in the US by Christian > fundamentalists motivated by their religious hatred. Some Norwegian nut > invoked defending the Christian and ethnic identity of Norway to justify > his slaughter of scores of teenagers at an island summer camp. > > This is Islam today and the nice guys are in the minority. ISIS doesn't > need to be the Reich to do heavy damage, because honestly the Germans > weren't that illogical, irrational yes, illogical no. Breivik in Norway was > a neonazi that saw his fellow Norwegians as traitors to the fatherland. > Breivik wasn't seeking paradise, in the same sense that Pol Pot in Cambodia > wasn't seeking paradise. Janah or Paradise, is what literally gets Muslims > up in the morning, factually and allegorically. > > You keep repeating this lie. Perhaps you believe that repeating a lie > enough times gives it a patina of truth. What gets Muslims is the same > thing that gets people up in the morning all over the world; people have > daily lives and routines. People get up in the morning, to get on with > their lives; you are expressing a bigots view. > -Chris > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > [email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 1:11 pm > Subject: RE: Democracy > > > > *From:* [email protected] [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]?>] > *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 8:19 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: Democracy > > I don't know if I'm a likable fellow, and I'd say probably not, but > thanks. The war and clash of civilizations thing comes up in the absence of > some better alternative. Being overly polite with the Islamists leads to > Boko Haram and Paris, I truly believe, because they view* gentleness as > weakness*. > Who is “they”? Muslim culture in general, or specific criminal gangs of > thugs using Islam as a justification and cover for their crimes? > The killings are worldwide, in places, on a far smaller scale as in > Thailand and the Philippines and India. > Gang killings occur in every country. Organized criminal thugs are > operating in many places around the world, not just in Muslim countries. > Why do you constrain yourself to fight only organized criminal > organizations that operate under cover of Islam, using it as a fig leaf to > cover their murderous actions? > Do you think the Zetas and other Mexican drug cartels (or any of the other > drug cartels for that matter are not as murderous? I used to live and drive > all over the region of Mexico and South Texas where the Zetas; that whole > region has been terrified by these murderous criminal thugs who have > beheaded people before ISIS got into that game (ex. 2013 beheaded four > woman allegedly tied to a rival gang). They have done many mass killings; > more than 60,000 people have died in Mexican drug wars. > > The reason, in large part, is the Islamists want to achieve immediate > entrance to Janah, or Paradise, where they get endless access to women, and > good times forever, for sacrificing now. > Blablabla… yeah so they tell you. Criminal thugs are not motivated by such > stupid fairy tales, these are hardcore criminal psychopaths who are using > Islam as window dressing. > ISIS is not the Third Reich; to make that comparison is fucking laughable. > ISIS is an organized murderous criminal gang. It should be dealt with in > that manner and portrayed in this light. > ISIS is not Islam, in the same way as that asshole who mass murdered all > those teenagers in a summer youth camp in Norway is not Christian. > -Chris > > This is one reason. In a way, this is akin to letting the 3rd Reich or > Japanese imperialists gain power and momentum in a war, which most nations > didn't want-then war becomes the only solution, because things then become > existential. This seems to be happening once more with the Islamists-which > appear to be gaining momentum today. > > Points to be remembered on this forum. No I don't have the proper answer, > nor do I have influence to effect events, for good or ill. It's just my > attempt at problem solving, and sometimes being bloody-minded is something > that needs to be thought through, before choosing a better option. That is > if we have options? > -----Original Message----- > From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > [email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 2:06 am > Subject: RE: Democracy > > > *From:* [email protected] [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]?>] > *Sent:* Thursday, January 15, 2015 12:48 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: Democracy > > Brent says true, in that terrorism is a method, not an end in itself. I > wonder if people would agree to the terms, as a war against Islamist > extremists, or radical Jihadis or? I think naming the enemies of freedom > and peace in the middle east in nigeria with boko haram, and today in > belgium (Hi Bruno) would be more acceptable, in that its limited targets, > for a limited duration. Also, the mean of 'war' need not be violent, > because you can't beat an idea with war alone. > You’re a far more likable fellow, when you don’t do the gung ho go to > war talk. > P.S. What Boko Harem did in the towns of Baga and Doron Baga – during > the same days as what went on in France FYI – is a first order war crime. > They massacred 2,500 people (Muslim African people) and destroyed almost > 4,000 buildings, literally razing those towns to the ground. They surely > should be hunted down and arrested for their horrible war crimes, including > the enslavement of all those school girls, but it should be a police > action, not a war, and certainly not a crusade! > Bastards like that don’t deserve the honor of being treated as enemies, > they are criminal murderous thugs, and in a just world would be brought to > face justice. > -Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meekerdb <[email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 1:04 pm > Subject: Re: Democracy > On 1/14/2015 11:52 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: > > In case no one has noticed, our dear president Obama has changed the > rhetoric used as cover for our Orwellian systems state of permanent war…. > The term “War on Terror” is bad enough, it implies an endless war requiring > an Orwellian intrusive state. But at least it seemed circumscribed to > opponents it could describe as being involved in terror. > Obama is now calling it the “War on extremism”. That term sends > Orwellian shivers down my spine; it is so broad and arbitrary in nature and > can be used to describe any and all opponents. > > > Sigh, everybody's so paranoid about government. Obama started using > "extremism" because the chattering classes kept pointing out that terrorism > is just a tactic and you can't make war on a tactic. > > Brent > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -----Original Message----- > From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > [email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 1:11 pm > Subject: RE: Democracy > > > > *From:* [email protected] [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]?>] > *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 8:19 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: Democracy > > I don't know if I'm a likable fellow, and I'd say probably not, but > thanks. The war and clash of civilizations thing comes up in the absence of > some better alternative. Being overly polite with the Islamists leads to > Boko Haram and Paris, I truly believe, because they view* gentleness as > weakness*. > Who is “they”? Muslim culture in general, or specific criminal gangs of > thugs using Islam as a justification and cover for their crimes? > The killings are worldwide, in places, on a far smaller scale as in > Thailand and the Philippines and India. > Gang killings occur in every country. Organized criminal thugs are > operating in many places around the world, not just in Muslim countries. > Why do you constrain yourself to fight only organized criminal > organizations that operate under cover of Islam, using it as a fig leaf to > cover their murderous actions? > Do you think the Zetas and other Mexican drug cartels (or any of the other > drug cartels for that matter are not as murderous? I used to live and drive > all over the region of Mexico and South Texas where the Zetas; that whole > region has been terrified by these murderous criminal thugs who have > beheaded people before ISIS got into that game (ex. 2013 beheaded four > woman allegedly tied to a rival gang). They have done many mass killings; > more than 60,000 people have died in Mexican drug wars. > > The reason, in large part, is the Islamists want to achieve immediate > entrance to Janah, or Paradise, where they get endless access to women, and > good times forever, for sacrificing now. > Blablabla… yeah so they tell you. Criminal thugs are not motivated by such > stupid fairy tales, these are hardcore criminal psychopaths who are using > Islam as window dressing. > ISIS is not the Third Reich; to make that comparison is fucking laughable. > ISIS is an organized murderous criminal gang. It should be dealt with in > that manner and portrayed in this light. > ISIS is not Islam, in the same way as that asshole who mass murdered all > those teenagers in a summer youth camp in Norway is not Christian. > -Chris > > This is one reason. In a way, this is akin to letting the 3rd Reich or > Japanese imperialists gain power and momentum in a war, which most nations > didn't want-then war becomes the only solution, because things then become > existential. This seems to be happening once more with the Islamists-which > appear to be gaining momentum today. > > Points to be remembered on this forum. No I don't have the proper answer, > nor do I have influence to effect events, for good or ill. It's just my > attempt at problem solving, and sometimes being bloody-minded is something > that needs to be thought through, before choosing a better option. That is > if we have options? > -----Original Message----- > From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > [email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 2:06 am > Subject: RE: Democracy > > > *From:* [email protected] [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]?>] > *Sent:* Thursday, January 15, 2015 12:48 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: Democracy > > Brent says true, in that terrorism is a method, not an end in itself. I > wonder if people would agree to the terms, as a war against Islamist > extremists, or radical Jihadis or? I think naming the enemies of freedom > and peace in the middle east in nigeria with boko haram, and today in > belgium (Hi Bruno) would be more acceptable, in that its limited targets, > for a limited duration. Also, the mean of 'war' need not be violent, > because you can't beat an idea with war alone. > You’re a far more likable fellow, when you don’t do the gung ho go to > war talk. > P.S. What Boko Harem did in the towns of Baga and Doron Baga – during > the same days as what went on in France FYI – is a first order war crime. > They massacred 2,500 people (Muslim African people) and destroyed almost > 4,000 buildings, literally razing those towns to the ground. They surely > should be hunted down and arrested for their horrible war crimes, including > the enslavement of all those school girls, but it should be a police > action, not a war, and certainly not a crusade! > Bastards like that don’t deserve the honor of being treated as enemies, > they are criminal murderous thugs, and in a just world would be brought to > face justice. > -Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meekerdb <[email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 1:04 pm > Subject: Re: Democracy > On 1/14/2015 11:52 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: > > In case no one has noticed, our dear president Obama has changed the > rhetoric used as cover for our Orwellian systems state of permanent war…. > The term “War on Terror” is bad enough, it implies an endless war requiring > an Orwellian intrusive state. But at least it seemed circumscribed to > opponents it could describe as being involved in terror. > Obama is now calling it the “War on extremism”. That term sends > Orwellian shivers down my spine; it is so broad and arbitrary in nature and > can be used to describe any and all opponents. > > > Sigh, everybody's so paranoid about government. Obama started using > "extremism" because the chattering classes kept pointing out that terrorism > is just a tactic and you can't make war on a tactic. > > Brent > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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