2015-01-10 22:10 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: > > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> John, >> >> But trade need an environment where some force and some love are >> necessary. Trade without enforcement of contracts does not work. >> > > There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. >
I would like to know. I have a long experience in discussions with anarco capitalists, since I was one of them for a time > > Take Silk Road. By it's very nature it could not resort to any of the law > enforcement or judicial systems maintained by the state. It didn't even use > the state's currency. Yet it had a large number of happy buyers and > sellers. It worked perfectly well under self-regulation. > > >> Neither work without some sincere love for what one does and for the well >> being of the client. trade without force need an utopic quantity of love. >> > > It might only need rational agents: one's reputation is more valuable in > the long run than immediate profit, one should due one's due diligence > before entering large trades. Again, this is how any successful illegal > market operates. And many do. > > A rational agent is a gangster, or a swindler. No intention to be sarcastic here. Both are perfect rational agents, and both will be present in any market environment ready to destroy the win-win game of the market. That is the reason why force and love are necessary. It is so evident for me that I would be very very surprised to find that you convince me after years of arguing with anarco-capitalists > Telmo. > > >> trade without love need big quantity of force. >> >> It is a pity to see all these modern ideologies that are nothing but >> simplifications and adaptations of Christian concepts. No political system >> is better than other. The Christian call for a personal revolution, called >> conversion, to change what is around and have a better society, not a >> political change. Paul called for the obedience of the Cesar, and the >> Cesar at that time was Nero. Only by the example or testimony of each one >> that changes the people around, the system will mutate to a better one. >> Even if formally does not change. And the contrary the better political >> system will decay if the people do evil. No society will be free from >> corruption since it is in human nature. >> >> In contrast the liberal sectarians of the ilustration and the french >> revolution though that a political change would change fundamentally the >> society for a better one without previously changing the people. That does >> not work. >> >> After that, the socialist sectarians fo the comunist revolution though >> that a violent social change would create a new Man. That didn't work too. >> >> What is next? the sectarian culturalist though.... >> >> >> All of them are bad and cheap copies of the Christian conception of >> salvation, escatology etc. >> >> But it is better to call things by his name. Democracy is an ideological >> lie. There is no such thing as democracy. There is the law of majority. and >> the result is not what the majority think, but what the elite -that they >> admire and obey- think. At the end the formal system does not matter >> >> >> 2015-01-10 19:40 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>: >> >>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:08 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > Functioning anarchy would require a level of individual ethics that >>>> does not yet exist >>>> >>> >>> No, it's socialism that won't work unless everybody is a saint, and >>> that's why socialist are always observed to be in a constant state of >>> righteous indignation; people aren't behaving as he wants then to behave >>> and as they must behave for his system to function. In general I can only >>> think of 3 ways to get anybody to do anything, force, love, or trade. I >>> think most of us would agree that all else being equal force is the least >>> desirable of the three. Love is very nice and it works for some things but >>> any economic system that must rely on people loving each other is just not >>> going to work. So unless somebody knows of a fourth way that I haven't >>> thought of there is only one thing left. >>> >>> The farmer grows my food, the trucker moves my food and the grocer sells >>> my food, I didn't make them do it and none of these people love me, >>> yet the free market plunges them into a conspiracy to put food on my >>> table. Capitalism can efficiently create wealth even if everybody is just >>> looking out for themselves, I know of no other economic system that can do >>> that. >>> >>> John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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