2015-01-10 22:49 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]>: > > > 2015-01-10 22:10 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: > >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> But trade need an environment where some force and some love are >>> necessary. Trade without enforcement of contracts does not work. >>> >> >> There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. >> > > I would like to know. I have a long experience in discussions with anarco > capitalists, since I was one of them for a time > >> >> Take Silk Road. By it's very nature it could not resort to any of the law >> enforcement or judicial systems maintained by the state. It didn't even use >> the state's currency. Yet it had a large number of happy buyers and >> sellers. It worked perfectly well under self-regulation. >> >> >>> Neither work without some sincere love for what one does and for the >>> well being of the client. trade without force need an utopic quantity of >>> love. >>> >> >> It might only need rational agents: one's reputation is more valuable in >> the long run than immediate profit, one should due one's due diligence >> before entering large trades. Again, this is how any successful illegal >> market operates. And many do. >> >> A rational agent is a gangster, or a swindler. >
CLARIFICATION: I don't mean that both are kinds of rational agents. Not that are the only ones of course. > No intention to be sarcastic here. Both are perfect rational agents, and > both will be present in any market environment ready to destroy the win-win > game of the market. That is the reason why force and love are necessary. > > It is so evident for me that I would be very very surprised to find that > you convince me after years of arguing with anarco-capitalists > > >> Telmo. >> >> >>> trade without love need big quantity of force. >>> >>> It is a pity to see all these modern ideologies that are nothing but >>> simplifications and adaptations of Christian concepts. No political system >>> is better than other. The Christian call for a personal revolution, called >>> conversion, to change what is around and have a better society, not a >>> political change. Paul called for the obedience of the Cesar, and the >>> Cesar at that time was Nero. Only by the example or testimony of each one >>> that changes the people around, the system will mutate to a better one. >>> Even if formally does not change. And the contrary the better political >>> system will decay if the people do evil. No society will be free from >>> corruption since it is in human nature. >>> >>> In contrast the liberal sectarians of the ilustration and the french >>> revolution though that a political change would change fundamentally the >>> society for a better one without previously changing the people. That does >>> not work. >>> >>> After that, the socialist sectarians fo the comunist revolution though >>> that a violent social change would create a new Man. That didn't work too. >>> >>> What is next? the sectarian culturalist though.... >>> >>> >>> All of them are bad and cheap copies of the Christian conception of >>> salvation, escatology etc. >>> >>> But it is better to call things by his name. Democracy is an ideological >>> lie. There is no such thing as democracy. There is the law of majority. and >>> the result is not what the majority think, but what the elite -that they >>> admire and obey- think. At the end the formal system does not matter >>> >>> >>> 2015-01-10 19:40 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:08 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Functioning anarchy would require a level of individual ethics that >>>>> does not yet exist >>>>> >>>> >>>> No, it's socialism that won't work unless everybody is a saint, and >>>> that's why socialist are always observed to be in a constant state of >>>> righteous indignation; people aren't behaving as he wants then to behave >>>> and as they must behave for his system to function. In general I can only >>>> think of 3 ways to get anybody to do anything, force, love, or trade. I >>>> think most of us would agree that all else being equal force is the least >>>> desirable of the three. Love is very nice and it works for some things but >>>> any economic system that must rely on people loving each other is just not >>>> going to work. So unless somebody knows of a fourth way that I haven't >>>> thought of there is only one thing left. >>>> >>>> The farmer grows my food, the trucker moves my food and the grocer >>>> sells my food, I didn't make them do it and none of these people love me, >>>> yet the free market plunges them into a conspiracy to put food on my >>>> table. Capitalism can efficiently create wealth even if everybody is just >>>> looking out for themselves, I know of no other economic system that can do >>>> that. >>>> >>>> John K Clark >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alberto. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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