On 5/8/2015 2:58 PM, LizR wrote:
On 9 May 2015 at 09:02, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 5/8/2015 1:33 AM, LizR wrote:
On 8 May 2015 at 18:37, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 07 May 2015, at 14:45, Bruce Kellett wrote:
We can use an original biological brain, or an equivalent
digital
replacement -- it does not make any significant difference to
the
argument. The first point is that in some conscious experience,
be it a
dream or anything else, there might be a portion of the 'brain'
(in
quotes because it can be biological or digital) that is not
activated,
so this can be removed without affecting the conscious
experience.
This idea of removing unused parts of brain so only "active" elements
remain,
seems problematic to me and not just because of counterfactual
correctness. The
ability to do this is implicit in the assumption that the physics of
the brain
is classical.
But comp is based on the assumption that consciousness is the result of
classical
computation. If that assumption's wrong then comp fails, of course, from
step 0 -
no need to worry about the MGA.
Bruno points out that a classical computer can compute anything that a
quantum
computer can so it doesn't exactly fail; what I think it implies that the
classical
computation must include the "environemnt", i.e. all the extra physical
degrees of
freedom and entanglement that make the brain computation (approximately)
classical.
That sounds like putting the cart before the horse. The question is, can the brain and
environment be extracted from the assumption that consciousness is classical
computation? Which is, of course, still an open question.
True, it's a problem from either end. If you just assume computation is fundamental then
you have to get QM out of it and ALSO the approximate classicality of the physically
realized computation.
Plus, assuming no quantum entanglement with the environment is involved in consciousness
(as seems likely given the decoherence times of neurons etc)
That's not taking the QM seriously. QM says that it's the decoherence due to entanglement
with the environment that produces the classical behavior.
Brent
the brain could in theory be isolated at the point where the external stimuli are
converted to nerve impulses - we don't interact with the environment directly. It's very
dark and quiet in our bone caves, with shadowy messages coming and going that we believe
indicate the existence of an outside world...
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