Hi Stathis, I really like this explanation of supervenience. I only worry that we need a lot more detail, of how exactly "A and B are unaffected if the timing, order or duration of a and b are changed." works. AFAIK, this requirement looks a lot like mutual independence, but it clearly can not be. There must be a non-zero probability of transitions within the processes at each level of the tower, something like a 'time' at each. That brings me to my next question: Where do we get the inequality of entropy when it is NOT at equilibrium for a system. Deriving an arrow of time is not just a matter of figuring out how to chain labels in observer moments, we need an actual transition from one state to another in our theory. Does anyone here have a nice explanation of Markov Processes that they could point me to?
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 14 Sep 2016, at 10:13 AM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 9/13/2016 7:22 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Sunday, 11 September 2016, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > >> In the UD model of the world, time as we perceive it, is emergent. The >> "execution" of the program is timeless and exists in Platonia. So the >> steps of the UD have no duration, they are logically prior to time and >> duration. On the other hand, I think so called "observer moments" must >> have duration in the emergent sense and must overlap. But their relation >> to the UD threads is more aspirational than proven. >> > I think it should be possible to pause and restart at any point a process > underpinning consciousness and leave the stream of consciousness unchanged; > otherwise there would be a radical decoupling of the mental from the > physical. At the limit, this means the process underpinning consciousness > can be cut up into infinitesimals. > > > Infinitesimals, I think not, at least not in Bruno's model. Each thread > of the UD's computation can be cut and restarted, but underlying an > "observer moment" or a "thought" are infinitely many threads and there is > no reference by which you can define cutting them all at "the same time". > So they make the "time" of consciousness essentially real valued. > > > The starting point of computationalism is that you can replace your brain > with a machine. If you can, then consciousness supervenes on a physical > process of the machine. Thought A supervenes on process a and thought B > supervenes on process B. A and B are unaffected if the timing, order or > duration of a and b are changed. A and B are unaffected if there are copies > of processes a and b up to an infinite number, as long as there is at least > one of each. A and B are unaffected if a and b are paused and restarted at > arbitrary points; we have then a1, a2, b1, b2 and A1, A2, B1, B2, but there > is no subjective consequence to splitting A and B. > > If A and B are the observer moments and they can be rearranged and split > up any way without changing the stream of subjective experience, then in a > sense their being rearranged and split up is only meaningful because it can > be defined for the physical processes on which they supervene. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > topic/everything-list/FnHZFBf-Acw/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 [email protected] http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message immediately.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
