On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:51:17 AM UTC-7, agrays...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:36:36 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:18:37 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:58 AM, Lawrence Crowell <
>>> goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>>> *If IGUS or ETI exist elsewhere, I would argue that probably there are
>>>> scaling limits to the powers such beings are able to control. The universe
>>>> has matter in it, but it has an average density of 10^{-29}g/cm^3,*
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, if you picked an average cubic meter of space in the universe it
>>> would only have about one hydrogen atom in it, but that's irrelevant
>>> because the space near stars is very very far from average.
>>>
>>> Jupiter alone has enough matter to make a Dyson Sphere, especially if
>>> the sphere's radius was considerably less than the Earth's orbital radius,
>>> and ET would probably pick that design. The efficiency of solar cells
>>> increases in more intense sunlight, some existing solar photovoltaic
>>> installations use a mirror or a Fresnel lens
>>>
>>> to concentrate sunlight to up to 900 times normal earth intensity and
>>> aim it at a solar cell. One Dyson Sphere would produce 33 trillion times
>>> more energy than the entire human race uses now, and it would keep
>>> producing it for billions of years. And there is no reason ET couldn't make
>>> billions of Dyson Spheres in a very short amount of time, astronomically
>>> speaking. And yet we see nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>>> *> and the overwhelming percentage of matter in dense configurations
>>>> is in stars that are hot and hard to access.*
>>>>
>>>
>>> ET wouldn't even want to access the matter in stars because that's the
>>> source of the very power they're trying to get at.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> *Even tearing up planets for materials is hard and energy intensive.*
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Energy is not a problem, there is plenty of energy available near stars
>>> but you're right it's hard, at least its hard to do right now because we
>>> don't have Drexler style Nanotechnology, but we don't have it because some
>>> law of physics forbids it, we don't have it simply because of lack of
>>> engineering skill. But new skills can be acquired. Brain surgery isn't
>>> hard if you know how and once we have Nanotechnology
>>>
>>> building a Dyson Sphere will no longer be hard.
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> *I would argue there are simply scaling limits to the control or
>>>> abilities of intelligent beings.*
>>>>
>>>
>>> You haven't argued it you've simply stated it.
>>>
>>> John K Clark
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I am simply proposing it. I have no particular proof. At some point
>> though any ETI/IGUS that attempts to do these things might be akin to a
>> flea climbing an elephant's butt with rape on its mind.
>>
>> We are faced with a number of prospects. The first is there is some limit
>> to complexity that any intelligent being can manage. In this scenario there
>> would be intelligent life elsewhere, but they are unable to push into these
>> extreme hyper-tech areas. The second is that intelligent life is extremely
>> rare or maybe we are the only ones. This seems to go against some general
>> Copernican principle. The third is the biology itself is some sort of
>> spectacular fluke, maybe as a hard emergent process, that Earth is the only
>> biologically active planet in the entire universe.
>>
>> LC
>>
>
> *Another possibility is that ET's exist, but for whatever reasons have no
> motivation to build Dyson Spheres. In this scenario they could be plentiful
> or rare, but without interest in such a project or others which are
> comparable in scope. AG*
>
*I may lack in imagination, but what would be the motivation for a galactic
empire? AG *
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