On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 2:21:15 AM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 6:25 PM, John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com 
> <javascript:>> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > Right, ET might prefer to become a 
> > navel gazer 
> > and spend eternity in the electronic equivalent of a crack house, but 
> even 
> > if 99% chose that path if just one individual in one civilization choose 
> to 
> > make 
> > one 
> >  Von Neumann Probe 
> > then we'd see evidence of that fact. But we see nothing. 
> It could be that this idea that the external space is more interesting 
> than the internal is just an obsession characteristic of our stage of 
> development. Perhaps the mysteries of the external space are exhausted 
> in a few millennia past our current point, and then all that is left 
> is to invent new things within artificial computational environments. 
> Who knows? 

We are mostly already there. Human expansion into virtual space is far 
greater than outer space. In fact with the end of the shuttle program we 
may have passed what might be called peak astronaut. The number of 
astronauts going up is declining. There has been a great expansion of 
course with space science done with probes, astronomical instruments and 
robots in space, but no such with humans in space. Further, it is pretty 
clear that humans are preferring the computer generated virtual realities 
to the far more difficult business of actually going into space.

> >> 
> >> > 
> >> (c) That galactic civilizations are observable by us. 
> > 
> > 
> > If its not observable to a blind man in 
> > a fog bank then it doesn't deserve to be called a galactic civilization. 
> Well... you talked about Von Neumann probes. I also imagine that as a 
> way to expand a civilization. But then, who knows what transformations 
> the entities go through? Do they merge with machines, or opt to be 
> totally emulated by machines? At what time scales will they operate 
> then? And needing which type of resource? And how do they obtain them? 
> Aren't you expecting that something absurdly advanced in relation to 
> us is readily recognizable by us? 

As I have said I think humans in space are mostly about technology, 
industry and commerce. If that can be made to work and humans start to make 
a long term or permanent presence in space humans out there will merge with 
their machines. For that matter I suspect humans down here on Earth will 
merge as well. We are half way there, in case you might have noticed people 
walking around with their eyes cast down on their phones. I suspect in 25 
years that will start to interlink directly with the brain. Humans moving 
into space might come to resemble the BORG on Star Trek NG. 


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