On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 2:05:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote:
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2018 6:35 PM, agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 1:08:55 AM UTC, Brent wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/13/2018 5:56 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
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>>
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>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:50:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: 
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote: 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 6:53:23 PM UTC, Brent wrote: 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *But since the momentum of either particle doesn't pre-exist the 
>>>>> measurement, there is a FTL influence, which IS hard to understand. In 
>>>>> fact, I doubt anyone does understand it. AG *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What would it mean to "understand it" besides being able to use the 
>>>>> equations to make correct inferences?  
>>>>>
>>>>> Brent
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * It's an ostensible contradiction with relativity that information 
>>>> transfer cannot be instantaneous. Now please don't use the semantic dodge 
>>>> that there is no information transfer because it's just an "influence". AG*
>>>>
>>>
>>> The reason touching an entangled system here is correlated with it there 
>>> is the system is the same in both regions of space. Quantum mechanics is 
>>> not really primarily about causality in space or spacetime, but rather has 
>>> a representation in space and time.
>>>
>>> LC
>>>
>>
>> *You're in denial. Better to admit a baffling result and let the chips 
>> fall. AG *
>>
>>
>> Are you also baffled by the result of measuring the momentum of one of 
>> two billard balls after their collision?
>>
>> Brent
>>
>
> *Not if the interaction is treated classically since local realism is 
> assumed. But if it's treated quantum mechanically, the momenta don't exist 
> prior to the measurement. This implies instantaneous action at a distance. 
> AG*
>
>
> But why does that make baffling?  Do you realize that the classical case 
> would have been baffling before Newton.  Someone would have wondered, "How 
> does the distant billard ball know what momentum to have?  It's witchcraft."
>
> Brent
>

*Sure, someone could have wondered, and probably did, why momentum is 
conserved in an elastic collision. Good question. But in the quantum 
treatment using the CI, we claim the momenta don't exist prior to 
measurement. This is a huge difference with huge implications, one being 
non locality. I'm sure you see the difference and are making me show you 
what you already know. OK. I like the challenge. AG*

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