On 4/13/2018 7:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 2:05:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 4/13/2018 6:35 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote:
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 1:08:55 AM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 4/13/2018 5:56 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:50:41 AM UTC, Lawrence
Crowell wrote:
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-5,
[email protected] wrote:
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 6:53:23 PM UTC, Brent
wrote:
On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
*But since the momentum of either particle
doesn't pre-exist the measurement, there is a
FTL influence, which IS hard to understand. In
fact, I doubt anyone does understand it. AG *
What would it mean to "understand it" besides
being able to use the equations to make correct
inferences?
Brent
*
It's an ostensible contradiction with relativity
that information transfer cannot be instantaneous.
Now please don't use the semantic dodge that there
is no information transfer because it's just an
"influence". AG*
The reason touching an entangled system here is
correlated with it there is the system is the same in
both regions of space. Quantum mechanics is not really
primarily about causality in space or spacetime, but
rather has a representation in space and time.
LC
*You're in denial. Better to admit a baffling result and let
the chips fall. AG *
Are you also baffled by the result of measuring the momentum
of one of two billard balls after their collision?
Brent
*Not if the interaction is treated classically since local
realism is assumed. But if it's treated quantum mechanically, the
momenta don't exist prior to the measurement. This implies
instantaneous action at a distance. AG*
But why does that make baffling? Do you realize that the
classical case would have been baffling before Newton. Someone
would have wondered, "How does the distant billard ball know what
momentum to have? It's witchcraft."
Brent
*Sure, someone could have wondered, and probably did, why momentum is
conserved in an elastic collision. Good question. But in the quantum
treatment using the CI, we claim the momenta don't exist prior to
measurement. This is a huge difference with huge implications, one
being non locality. *
But non-locality is avoided by the randomness...so that no information
is transmitted. You're like the person who says, "Now it's momentum has
changed from an unknowable indefinite value to an unknowable definite
value. It's witchcraft!"
Brent
*I'm sure you see the difference and are making me show you what you
already know. OK. I like the challenge. AG*
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