> On 31 May 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 5/31/2018 11:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 30 May 2018, at 20:29, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/30/2018 3:18 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> 2018-05-30 11:27 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Crowell >>>> <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>: >>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 1:25:19 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> You miss my point that no one, no physicists, no philosopher, starts out >>>> by defining "primary matter". It is your invention as a straw man to be >>>> defeated by computationalism. Some physicists and some philosophers may >>>> suppose that the stuff described by physics is enough to explain the world >>>> we observe; but most also suppose that it is not "primary". They look for >>>> a deeper more unified ur-stuff and many physicists have followed Wheeler >>>> and Tegmark in thinking of the equations of mathematical physics as simply >>>> defining the ur-stuff. >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> This and other old philosophical ideas are of no utility in physics. There >>>> is no physical meaning to terms such as primary matter. >>>> >>>> Primary matter is a metaphysical idea about the reality... so of course it >>>> is of no utility in physics... but physics don't tell us anything about >>>> what is reality. >>> >>> Yet it tells us about how the world works and what we can and can't do. So >>> what exactly would it add know "what is reality". This is exactly like my >>> point about consciousness. When we can predict, construct, manipulate, >>> consciousness the way we do the physical world, then the "hard problem" of >>> consciousness will be as irrelevant as elan vitale is to biology and >>> "primary matter" is to physics. >>> >>>> >>>> Everythingism are metaphysical idea about what is reality... so if your >>>> concern is only in utility, philosophy doesn't concern you... >>>> >>>> Materialism, physicalim, computationalism, deism etc are metaphysical, >>>> philosophical and about what reality is... physics is about prediction on >>>> the reality, not about what ultimately reality is... it answers how, not >>>> what and why... >>>> >>>> The problem is with people equating physics whith physicalism... they're >>>> not the same, one is a metaphysical idea about the nature of reality. >>> >>> But I'm suggesting to you that this metaphysical idea is empty if it has no >>> consequences, but if it does have consequences then it's physics and not >>> metaphysics. >> >> That does not work with computationalism. You would have to define “[]p & >> <>t & p” from scratch, > > "From scratch" meaning from some axioms that you approve of. This is the > project of scholasticism.
Not at all. That is the project of science. The axioms are either confirmed, or refuted/improved. In Mechanist Metaphysics, physicalism cannot work, and the facts confirmed Mechanism up to now. It is the only theory which works today. A good thing given that the evolution theory of Darwin necessitates Mechanism, like most theories implicitly or explicitly. Bruno > > Brent > "All human progress has come from studying the shadows on the cave wall." > --- Sean Carroll > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
