On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 5:44:54 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Jul 2018, at 01:37, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 7:15:58 PM UTC, [email protected] [1]
wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:19:47 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 19:55, <[email protected]> a écrit :
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 9:58:47 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 09:26, <[email protected]> a écrit :
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:31:26 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 00:10, <[email protected]> a écrit :
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 9:59:49 PM UTC, stathisp wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 2:08 am, <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:30:11 AM UTC, [email protected]
wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:24:42 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux
wrote:
I still don't get it why some people prefer insulting other people
and their ideas instead of discussing or just stay with their own
thoughts and just say they disagree... What do you gain by saying
they are insane, stupid or whatever?
It just looks to me childish. So stop doing this, stop writing in
70pt size red fonts... It's a disfavor to your arguments.
Quentin
In fact, I DO think it's a mental illness. AG
It's not just wrong, but a gross dysfunction of judgment. Joe the
Plumber goes into a lab or his closet, shoots a single electron at a
slit, and by so doing creates uncountable universes, all with copies
of himself, replete with his memories. Sure. AG
You may as well protest on the same basis that the universe can’t be
so wastefully large.
I don't see how that follows. Unfortunately, one cannot PROVE that the
many worlds allegedly implied by the MWI interpretation don't exist,
which is why I insist the True Believers are judgment impaired. Do you
really believe that trivial actions by mere humans, accidents of
evolution, can create entire universes? AG.
No, because that's not what happens, at every interactions, universes
split/differentiate... Humans or not.
Humans have nothing to do in the process.
Like I said, the True Believers are judgement impaired. The splitting
occurs BECAUSE Joe the Plumber DECIDES to perform a single event slit
experiment. AG
Your judgment is impaired because that 's not what happens, splitting
happens continuously, Joe the plumber is part of the universe so as
his thoughts and whatever he does... His decisions are not something
that exists independently outside of that, Joe the plumber does not
create universe, any qm interactions split the universe, since the
beginning of the universe, no humans needed at all.
5
I MISSPOKE. I JUST MEANT THAT BY DOING A SINGLE EVENT SLIT EXPERIMENT,
IT IS ALLEGED BY THE MWI THAT THE UNIVERSE SPLITS UNCOUNTABLY. I
DIDN'T MEAN THAT THE ALLEGED PHYSICAL SPLITTING IS CAUSED BY HUMAN
CONSCIOUSNESS, IN THIS CASE THE DECISION TO DO THE EXPERIMENT.
IT'S LIKE A MAN DECIDING TO JUMP OFF A ROOF AND GETS KILLED; HIS
DEATH IS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY GRAVITY, NOT THAT THE MAN CAUSED THE
GRAVITY TO EXIST. THE ALLEGED SPLITTING IS NOT DISPROVABLE, JUST
PLAUSIBLE FOR THOSE WHOSE JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED DUE TO AN OVER
RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS. AS I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES, WITHOUT ANY
REASONED RESPONSES, IN E&M WE HAVE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS TO
MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS, BUT PLANE WAVES DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE. IOW,
MATHEMATICS MODELING PHYSICAL REALITY CAN SOMETIMES BE MISLEADING AS
IN THE E&M EXAMPLE. AG
It's you who's using the Joe the plumber argument to make it looks
like insane... It's just a straw man. Stop using insult and straw man,
it is useless and childish.
HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, JUST A CITIZEN WHO HAD HIS 15 MINUTES OF FAME IN
A RECENT US ELECTION. YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME, BUT IT COMES TO THE
SAME RESULT. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, TELL US ABOUT THE MATHEMATICS
THAT LEADS TO PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS WHICH DON'T EXIST IN REALITY.
AG
THE FALLACY IN YOUR REASONING WHICH SUPPORTS THE MWI AND WHICH YOU ARE
LOATHE TO ADMIT, IS OVER-RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS, THE BELIEF THAT IT
ALWAYS GIVES SOLUTIONS THAT EXIST IN PHYSICAL REALITY.
Not at all. The belief in physical superposition comes from single
photon thought experiences, corroborated by all the experimentation.
Unlike the plane wave, all experiences suggests that the amplitude of
the wave counts.
OF COURSE THE AMPLITUDE OF THE WAVE COUNTS. IT'S DIRECTLY USED
WHEN APPLYING THE POSTULATE FOR CALCULATING THE PROBABILITY. I NEVER
DENIED IT. WHAT I DID DENY YOU STILL HAVE NO CLUE. I THINK THIS
DISCUSSION IS A WASTE OF TIME. ENJOY YOUR ILLUSION. GOOD BYE. AG
In Feynman’s formulation of QM, the wave is recovered from the
sum on all path. Attempts to select some parts of the wave are not
confirmed by the experiences.
I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SUPERPOSTIONS, NOT PATHS. IN CALCULATING THE
PROBABILITY, WE USE THE INNER PRODUCT OF ONE OF THE EIGENFUNCTIONS,
THE ONE WHOSE EIGENVALUE WE WISH TO MEASURE, WITH THE WHOLE WAVE. I
NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID SAY? AG
THE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS OF ME'S IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I
AM REFERRING TO; MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T EXIST IN
NATURE. AG
The whole weirdness of QM is that we can measure effects which in
that formalism entails the actuality of counterfactuals.
Computationalism is more than OK with this, as it predicted that for
almost all universal machine (that is all except a finite number of
exception), the reality below its substitution level is an infinite
sum of universal machine, and above its substitution level it is a
finite sum of universal machine (to handle with).
Actually, physical decoherence saves mechanism, and QM, from
solipsism.
Grayson, you seem to dislike the many-worlds or many-dreams, but
eventually, with mechanism, all we need to assume is the
many-numbers, or the many-combinators (as I will illustrate).
The physical reality is not a mathematical structure among others:
it is the border of the observable from a universal machine
viewpoint. A very peculiar structure implied by mechanism and a
notion of correct self-reference.
Bruno
Quentin
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