On 29 July 2018 at 17:33, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:54:06 PM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On 29 July 2018 at 15:46, smitra <[email protected]> wrote: >> > My final word would be the following. There only exists an eternal >> > multiverse comprising of all possible observations. > > > This is a conjecture for which no support exists. AG > >> >> Here "observation" is a >> > complete description that includes everything that is experienced which >> > includes the identity of the observer. If my knee hurts, then the fact >> > that >> > it's me that is experiencing this, is actually part of the observation. >> > >> > There does not exist a fundamental space-time, and matter, energy etc. >> > don't >> > exist either. The only things that exist are mathematical objects. We >> > can >> > then consider operators as mappings from some set to itself as >> > representing >> > observers. The right kind of operator needed here is a mapping that is >> > defined by the element of the set itself. So, if you choose an element >> > of >> > the set, this corresponds to a mapping that applied to that element will >> > map >> > to another element >> >> This mapping must be one-to-many, correct? >> >> Telmo. > > > Are you one of the mathematical geniuses here who don't know what a map is?
I'm a very stable genius. Telmo. > AG >> >> >> > which then defines another mapping. The element of the >> > set contains information that from the point of view of the mapping >> > could >> > look like a universe filled with matter and energy, and it then >> > perceives >> > itself as part of that universe. >> > >> > Saibal >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 28-07-2018 20:24, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 5:44:54 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 28 Jul 2018, at 01:37, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 7:15:58 PM UTC, [email protected] [1] >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:19:47 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 19:55, <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 9:58:47 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 09:26, <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:31:26 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 00:10, <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 9:59:49 PM UTC, stathisp wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 2:08 am, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:30:11 AM UTC, [email protected] >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:24:42 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux >> >>> wrote: >> >>> I still don't get it why some people prefer insulting other people >> >>> and their ideas instead of discussing or just stay with their own >> >>> thoughts and just say they disagree... What do you gain by saying >> >>> they are insane, stupid or whatever? >> >>> >> >>> It just looks to me childish. So stop doing this, stop writing in >> >>> 70pt size red fonts... It's a disfavor to your arguments. >> >>> >> >>> Quentin >> >>> >> >>> In fact, I DO think it's a mental illness. AG >> >> >> >> >> >> It's not just wrong, but a gross dysfunction of judgment. Joe the >> >> Plumber goes into a lab or his closet, shoots a single electron at a >> >> slit, and by so doing creates uncountable universes, all with copies >> >> of himself, replete with his memories. Sure. AG >> >> >> >> You may as well protest on the same basis that the universe can’t be >> >> so wastefully large. >> >> >> >> I don't see how that follows. Unfortunately, one cannot PROVE that the >> >> many worlds allegedly implied by the MWI interpretation don't exist, >> >> which is why I insist the True Believers are judgment impaired. Do you >> >> really believe that trivial actions by mere humans, accidents of >> >> evolution, can create entire universes? AG. >> >> >> >> No, because that's not what happens, at every interactions, universes >> >> split/differentiate... Humans or not. >> >> >> >> Humans have nothing to do in the process. >> >> >> >> Like I said, the True Believers are judgement impaired. The splitting >> >> occurs BECAUSE Joe the Plumber DECIDES to perform a single event slit >> >> experiment. AG >> >> >> >> Your judgment is impaired because that 's not what happens, splitting >> >> happens continuously, Joe the plumber is part of the universe so as >> >> his thoughts and whatever he does... His decisions are not something >> >> that exists independently outside of that, Joe the plumber does not >> >> create universe, any qm interactions split the universe, since the >> >> beginning of the universe, no humans needed at all. >> >> 5 >> >> I MISSPOKE. I JUST MEANT THAT BY DOING A SINGLE EVENT SLIT EXPERIMENT, >> >> IT IS ALLEGED BY THE MWI THAT THE UNIVERSE SPLITS UNCOUNTABLY. I >> >> DIDN'T MEAN THAT THE ALLEGED PHYSICAL SPLITTING IS CAUSED BY HUMAN >> >> CONSCIOUSNESS, IN THIS CASE THE DECISION TO DO THE EXPERIMENT. >> >> IT'S LIKE A MAN DECIDING TO JUMP OFF A ROOF AND GETS KILLED; HIS >> >> DEATH IS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY GRAVITY, NOT THAT THE MAN CAUSED THE >> >> GRAVITY TO EXIST. THE ALLEGED SPLITTING IS NOT DISPROVABLE, JUST >> >> PLAUSIBLE FOR THOSE WHOSE JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED DUE TO AN OVER >> >> RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS. AS I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES, WITHOUT ANY >> >> REASONED RESPONSES, IN E&M WE HAVE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS TO >> >> MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS, BUT PLANE WAVES DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE. IOW, >> >> MATHEMATICS MODELING PHYSICAL REALITY CAN SOMETIMES BE MISLEADING AS >> >> IN THE E&M EXAMPLE. AG >> >> >> >> It's you who's using the Joe the plumber argument to make it looks >> >> like insane... It's just a straw man. Stop using insult and straw man, >> >> it is useless and childish. >> >> >> >> HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, JUST A CITIZEN WHO HAD HIS 15 MINUTES OF FAME IN >> >> A RECENT US ELECTION. YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME, BUT IT COMES TO THE >> >> SAME RESULT. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, TELL US ABOUT THE MATHEMATICS >> >> THAT LEADS TO PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS WHICH DON'T EXIST IN REALITY. >> >> AG >> >> >> >> THE FALLACY IN YOUR REASONING WHICH SUPPORTS THE MWI AND WHICH YOU ARE >> >> LOATHE TO ADMIT, IS OVER-RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS, THE BELIEF THAT IT >> >> ALWAYS GIVES SOLUTIONS THAT EXIST IN PHYSICAL REALITY. >> >> >> >> Not at all. The belief in physical superposition comes from single >> >> photon thought experiences, corroborated by all the experimentation. >> >> Unlike the plane wave, all experiences suggests that the amplitude of >> >> the wave counts. >> >> >> >> OF COURSE THE AMPLITUDE OF THE WAVE COUNTS. IT'S DIRECTLY USED >> >> WHEN APPLYING THE POSTULATE FOR CALCULATING THE PROBABILITY. I NEVER >> >> DENIED IT. WHAT I DID DENY YOU STILL HAVE NO CLUE. I THINK THIS >> >> DISCUSSION IS A WASTE OF TIME. ENJOY YOUR ILLUSION. GOOD BYE. AG >> >> >> >>> In Feynman’s formulation of QM, the wave is recovered from the >> >>> sum on all path. Attempts to select some parts of the wave are not >> >>> confirmed by the experiences. >> >> >> >> >> >> I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SUPERPOSTIONS, NOT PATHS. IN CALCULATING THE >> >> PROBABILITY, WE USE THE INNER PRODUCT OF ONE OF THE EIGENFUNCTIONS, >> >> THE ONE WHOSE EIGENVALUE WE WISH TO MEASURE, WITH THE WHOLE WAVE. I >> >> NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID SAY? AG >> >> >> >>>> THE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS OF ME'S IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I >> >>>> AM REFERRING TO; MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T EXIST IN >> >>>> NATURE. AG >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> The whole weirdness of QM is that we can measure effects which in >> >>> that formalism entails the actuality of counterfactuals. >> >>> >> >>> Computationalism is more than OK with this, as it predicted that for >> >>> almost all universal machine (that is all except a finite number of >> >>> exception), the reality below its substitution level is an infinite >> >>> sum of universal machine, and above its substitution level it is a >> >>> finite sum of universal machine (to handle with). >> >>> Actually, physical decoherence saves mechanism, and QM, from >> >>> solipsism. >> >>> >> >>> Grayson, you seem to dislike the many-worlds or many-dreams, but >> >>> eventually, with mechanism, all we need to assume is the >> >>> many-numbers, or the many-combinators (as I will illustrate). >> >>> >> >>> The physical reality is not a mathematical structure among others: >> >>> it is the border of the observable from a universal machine >> >>> viewpoint. A very peculiar structure implied by mechanism and a >> >>> notion of correct self-reference. >> >>> >> >>> Bruno >> >>> >> >>> Quentin >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> >>> Stathis Papaioannou >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> >> [email protected]. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> >> >> Links: >> >> ------ >> >> [1] http://gmail.com >> >> [2] https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to [email protected]. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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