On 29 July 2018 at 17:33, <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:54:06 PM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On 29 July 2018 at 15:46, smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl> wrote: >> > My final word would be the following. There only exists an eternal >> > multiverse comprising of all possible observations. > > > This is a conjecture for which no support exists. AG > >> >> Here "observation" is a >> > complete description that includes everything that is experienced which >> > includes the identity of the observer. If my knee hurts, then the fact >> > that >> > it's me that is experiencing this, is actually part of the observation. >> > >> > There does not exist a fundamental space-time, and matter, energy etc. >> > don't >> > exist either. The only things that exist are mathematical objects. We >> > can >> > then consider operators as mappings from some set to itself as >> > representing >> > observers. The right kind of operator needed here is a mapping that is >> > defined by the element of the set itself. So, if you choose an element >> > of >> > the set, this corresponds to a mapping that applied to that element will >> > map >> > to another element >> >> This mapping must be one-to-many, correct? >> >> Telmo. > > > Are you one of the mathematical geniuses here who don't know what a map is?
I'm a very stable genius. Telmo. > AG >> >> >> > which then defines another mapping. The element of the >> > set contains information that from the point of view of the mapping >> > could >> > look like a universe filled with matter and energy, and it then >> > perceives >> > itself as part of that universe. >> > >> > Saibal >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 28-07-2018 20:24, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 5:44:54 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 28 Jul 2018, at 01:37, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 7:15:58 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com [1] >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:19:47 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 19:55, <agrays...@gmail.com> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 9:58:47 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 09:26, <agrays...@gmail.com> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:31:26 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 00:10, <agrays...@gmail.com> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 9:59:49 PM UTC, stathisp wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 2:08 am, <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:30:11 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:24:42 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux >> >>> wrote: >> >>> I still don't get it why some people prefer insulting other people >> >>> and their ideas instead of discussing or just stay with their own >> >>> thoughts and just say they disagree... What do you gain by saying >> >>> they are insane, stupid or whatever? >> >>> >> >>> It just looks to me childish. So stop doing this, stop writing in >> >>> 70pt size red fonts... It's a disfavor to your arguments. >> >>> >> >>> Quentin >> >>> >> >>> In fact, I DO think it's a mental illness. AG >> >> >> >> >> >> It's not just wrong, but a gross dysfunction of judgment. Joe the >> >> Plumber goes into a lab or his closet, shoots a single electron at a >> >> slit, and by so doing creates uncountable universes, all with copies >> >> of himself, replete with his memories. Sure. AG >> >> >> >> You may as well protest on the same basis that the universe can’t be >> >> so wastefully large. >> >> >> >> I don't see how that follows. Unfortunately, one cannot PROVE that the >> >> many worlds allegedly implied by the MWI interpretation don't exist, >> >> which is why I insist the True Believers are judgment impaired. Do you >> >> really believe that trivial actions by mere humans, accidents of >> >> evolution, can create entire universes? AG. >> >> >> >> No, because that's not what happens, at every interactions, universes >> >> split/differentiate... Humans or not. >> >> >> >> Humans have nothing to do in the process. >> >> >> >> Like I said, the True Believers are judgement impaired. The splitting >> >> occurs BECAUSE Joe the Plumber DECIDES to perform a single event slit >> >> experiment. AG >> >> >> >> Your judgment is impaired because that 's not what happens, splitting >> >> happens continuously, Joe the plumber is part of the universe so as >> >> his thoughts and whatever he does... His decisions are not something >> >> that exists independently outside of that, Joe the plumber does not >> >> create universe, any qm interactions split the universe, since the >> >> beginning of the universe, no humans needed at all. >> >> 5 >> >> I MISSPOKE. I JUST MEANT THAT BY DOING A SINGLE EVENT SLIT EXPERIMENT, >> >> IT IS ALLEGED BY THE MWI THAT THE UNIVERSE SPLITS UNCOUNTABLY. I >> >> DIDN'T MEAN THAT THE ALLEGED PHYSICAL SPLITTING IS CAUSED BY HUMAN >> >> CONSCIOUSNESS, IN THIS CASE THE DECISION TO DO THE EXPERIMENT. >> >> IT'S LIKE A MAN DECIDING TO JUMP OFF A ROOF AND GETS KILLED; HIS >> >> DEATH IS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY GRAVITY, NOT THAT THE MAN CAUSED THE >> >> GRAVITY TO EXIST. THE ALLEGED SPLITTING IS NOT DISPROVABLE, JUST >> >> PLAUSIBLE FOR THOSE WHOSE JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED DUE TO AN OVER >> >> RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS. AS I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES, WITHOUT ANY >> >> REASONED RESPONSES, IN E&M WE HAVE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS TO >> >> MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS, BUT PLANE WAVES DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE. IOW, >> >> MATHEMATICS MODELING PHYSICAL REALITY CAN SOMETIMES BE MISLEADING AS >> >> IN THE E&M EXAMPLE. AG >> >> >> >> It's you who's using the Joe the plumber argument to make it looks >> >> like insane... It's just a straw man. Stop using insult and straw man, >> >> it is useless and childish. >> >> >> >> HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, JUST A CITIZEN WHO HAD HIS 15 MINUTES OF FAME IN >> >> A RECENT US ELECTION. YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME, BUT IT COMES TO THE >> >> SAME RESULT. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, TELL US ABOUT THE MATHEMATICS >> >> THAT LEADS TO PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS WHICH DON'T EXIST IN REALITY. >> >> AG >> >> >> >> THE FALLACY IN YOUR REASONING WHICH SUPPORTS THE MWI AND WHICH YOU ARE >> >> LOATHE TO ADMIT, IS OVER-RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS, THE BELIEF THAT IT >> >> ALWAYS GIVES SOLUTIONS THAT EXIST IN PHYSICAL REALITY. >> >> >> >> Not at all. The belief in physical superposition comes from single >> >> photon thought experiences, corroborated by all the experimentation. >> >> Unlike the plane wave, all experiences suggests that the amplitude of >> >> the wave counts. >> >> >> >> OF COURSE THE AMPLITUDE OF THE WAVE COUNTS. IT'S DIRECTLY USED >> >> WHEN APPLYING THE POSTULATE FOR CALCULATING THE PROBABILITY. I NEVER >> >> DENIED IT. WHAT I DID DENY YOU STILL HAVE NO CLUE. I THINK THIS >> >> DISCUSSION IS A WASTE OF TIME. ENJOY YOUR ILLUSION. GOOD BYE. AG >> >> >> >>> In Feynman’s formulation of QM, the wave is recovered from the >> >>> sum on all path. Attempts to select some parts of the wave are not >> >>> confirmed by the experiences. >> >> >> >> >> >> I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SUPERPOSTIONS, NOT PATHS. IN CALCULATING THE >> >> PROBABILITY, WE USE THE INNER PRODUCT OF ONE OF THE EIGENFUNCTIONS, >> >> THE ONE WHOSE EIGENVALUE WE WISH TO MEASURE, WITH THE WHOLE WAVE. I >> >> NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID SAY? AG >> >> >> >>>> THE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS OF ME'S IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I >> >>>> AM REFERRING TO; MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T EXIST IN >> >>>> NATURE. AG >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> The whole weirdness of QM is that we can measure effects which in >> >>> that formalism entails the actuality of counterfactuals. >> >>> >> >>> Computationalism is more than OK with this, as it predicted that for >> >>> almost all universal machine (that is all except a finite number of >> >>> exception), the reality below its substitution level is an infinite >> >>> sum of universal machine, and above its substitution level it is a >> >>> finite sum of universal machine (to handle with). >> >>> Actually, physical decoherence saves mechanism, and QM, from >> >>> solipsism. >> >>> >> >>> Grayson, you seem to dislike the many-worlds or many-dreams, but >> >>> eventually, with mechanism, all we need to assume is the >> >>> many-numbers, or the many-combinators (as I will illustrate). >> >>> >> >>> The physical reality is not a mathematical structure among others: >> >>> it is the border of the observable from a universal machine >> >>> viewpoint. A very peculiar structure implied by mechanism and a >> >>> notion of correct self-reference. >> >>> >> >>> Bruno >> >>> >> >>> Quentin >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> >>> Stathis Papaioannou >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> >> everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [2]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> >> >> >> Links: >> >> ------ >> >> [1] http://gmail.com >> >> [2] https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> >> [3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
