On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:54:06 PM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On 29 July 2018 at 15:46, smitra <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > > My final word would be the following. There only exists an eternal > > multiverse comprising of all possible observations.
This is a conjecture for which no support exists. AG > Here "observation" is a > > complete description that includes everything that is experienced which > > includes the identity of the observer. If my knee hurts, then the fact > that > > it's me that is experiencing this, is actually part of the observation. > > > > There does not exist a fundamental space-time, and matter, energy etc. > don't > > exist either. The only things that exist are mathematical objects. We > can > > then consider operators as mappings from some set to itself as > representing > > observers. The right kind of operator needed here is a mapping that is > > defined by the element of the set itself. So, if you choose an element > of > > the set, this corresponds to a mapping that applied to that element will > map > > to another element > > This mapping must be one-to-many, correct? > > Telmo. > Are you one of the mathematical geniuses here who don't know what a map is? AG > > > which then defines another mapping. The element of the > > set contains information that from the point of view of the mapping > could > > look like a universe filled with matter and energy, and it then > perceives > > itself as part of that universe. > > > > Saibal > > > > > > > > > > On 28-07-2018 20:24, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote: > >> > >> On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 5:44:54 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> > >>> On 28 Jul 2018, at 01:37, [email protected] wrote: > >>> > >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 7:15:58 PM UTC, [email protected] [1] > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:19:47 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >>> > >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 19:55, <[email protected]> a écrit : > >>> > >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 9:58:47 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >>> > >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 09:26, <[email protected]> a écrit : > >>> > >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:31:26 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >>> > >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 00:10, <[email protected]> a écrit : > >>> > >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 9:59:49 PM UTC, stathisp wrote: > >>> > >>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 2:08 am, <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:30:11 AM UTC, [email protected] > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:24:42 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux > >>> wrote: > >>> I still don't get it why some people prefer insulting other people > >>> and their ideas instead of discussing or just stay with their own > >>> thoughts and just say they disagree... What do you gain by saying > >>> they are insane, stupid or whatever? > >>> > >>> It just looks to me childish. So stop doing this, stop writing in > >>> 70pt size red fonts... It's a disfavor to your arguments. > >>> > >>> Quentin > >>> > >>> In fact, I DO think it's a mental illness. AG > >> > >> > >> It's not just wrong, but a gross dysfunction of judgment. Joe the > >> Plumber goes into a lab or his closet, shoots a single electron at a > >> slit, and by so doing creates uncountable universes, all with copies > >> of himself, replete with his memories. Sure. AG > >> > >> You may as well protest on the same basis that the universe can’t be > >> so wastefully large. > >> > >> I don't see how that follows. Unfortunately, one cannot PROVE that the > >> many worlds allegedly implied by the MWI interpretation don't exist, > >> which is why I insist the True Believers are judgment impaired. Do you > >> really believe that trivial actions by mere humans, accidents of > >> evolution, can create entire universes? AG. > >> > >> No, because that's not what happens, at every interactions, universes > >> split/differentiate... Humans or not. > >> > >> Humans have nothing to do in the process. > >> > >> Like I said, the True Believers are judgement impaired. The splitting > >> occurs BECAUSE Joe the Plumber DECIDES to perform a single event slit > >> experiment. AG > >> > >> Your judgment is impaired because that 's not what happens, splitting > >> happens continuously, Joe the plumber is part of the universe so as > >> his thoughts and whatever he does... His decisions are not something > >> that exists independently outside of that, Joe the plumber does not > >> create universe, any qm interactions split the universe, since the > >> beginning of the universe, no humans needed at all. > >> 5 > >> I MISSPOKE. I JUST MEANT THAT BY DOING A SINGLE EVENT SLIT EXPERIMENT, > >> IT IS ALLEGED BY THE MWI THAT THE UNIVERSE SPLITS UNCOUNTABLY. I > >> DIDN'T MEAN THAT THE ALLEGED PHYSICAL SPLITTING IS CAUSED BY HUMAN > >> CONSCIOUSNESS, IN THIS CASE THE DECISION TO DO THE EXPERIMENT. > >> IT'S LIKE A MAN DECIDING TO JUMP OFF A ROOF AND GETS KILLED; HIS > >> DEATH IS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY GRAVITY, NOT THAT THE MAN CAUSED THE > >> GRAVITY TO EXIST. THE ALLEGED SPLITTING IS NOT DISPROVABLE, JUST > >> PLAUSIBLE FOR THOSE WHOSE JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED DUE TO AN OVER > >> RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS. AS I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES, WITHOUT ANY > >> REASONED RESPONSES, IN E&M WE HAVE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS TO > >> MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS, BUT PLANE WAVES DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE. IOW, > >> MATHEMATICS MODELING PHYSICAL REALITY CAN SOMETIMES BE MISLEADING AS > >> IN THE E&M EXAMPLE. AG > >> > >> It's you who's using the Joe the plumber argument to make it looks > >> like insane... It's just a straw man. Stop using insult and straw man, > >> it is useless and childish. > >> > >> HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, JUST A CITIZEN WHO HAD HIS 15 MINUTES OF FAME IN > >> A RECENT US ELECTION. YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME, BUT IT COMES TO THE > >> SAME RESULT. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, TELL US ABOUT THE MATHEMATICS > >> THAT LEADS TO PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS WHICH DON'T EXIST IN REALITY. > >> AG > >> > >> THE FALLACY IN YOUR REASONING WHICH SUPPORTS THE MWI AND WHICH YOU ARE > >> LOATHE TO ADMIT, IS OVER-RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS, THE BELIEF THAT IT > >> ALWAYS GIVES SOLUTIONS THAT EXIST IN PHYSICAL REALITY. > >> > >> Not at all. The belief in physical superposition comes from single > >> photon thought experiences, corroborated by all the experimentation. > >> Unlike the plane wave, all experiences suggests that the amplitude of > >> the wave counts. > >> > >> OF COURSE THE AMPLITUDE OF THE WAVE COUNTS. IT'S DIRECTLY USED > >> WHEN APPLYING THE POSTULATE FOR CALCULATING THE PROBABILITY. I NEVER > >> DENIED IT. WHAT I DID DENY YOU STILL HAVE NO CLUE. I THINK THIS > >> DISCUSSION IS A WASTE OF TIME. ENJOY YOUR ILLUSION. GOOD BYE. AG > >> > >>> In Feynman’s formulation of QM, the wave is recovered from the > >>> sum on all path. Attempts to select some parts of the wave are not > >>> confirmed by the experiences. > >> > >> > >> I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SUPERPOSTIONS, NOT PATHS. IN CALCULATING THE > >> PROBABILITY, WE USE THE INNER PRODUCT OF ONE OF THE EIGENFUNCTIONS, > >> THE ONE WHOSE EIGENVALUE WE WISH TO MEASURE, WITH THE WHOLE WAVE. I > >> NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID SAY? AG > >> > >>>> THE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS OF ME'S IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I > >>>> AM REFERRING TO; MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T EXIST IN > >>>> NATURE. AG > >>> > >>> > >>> The whole weirdness of QM is that we can measure effects which in > >>> that formalism entails the actuality of counterfactuals. > >>> > >>> Computationalism is more than OK with this, as it predicted that for > >>> almost all universal machine (that is all except a finite number of > >>> exception), the reality below its substitution level is an infinite > >>> sum of universal machine, and above its substitution level it is a > >>> finite sum of universal machine (to handle with). > >>> Actually, physical decoherence saves mechanism, and QM, from > >>> solipsism. > >>> > >>> Grayson, you seem to dislike the many-worlds or many-dreams, but > >>> eventually, with mechanism, all we need to assume is the > >>> many-numbers, or the many-combinators (as I will illustrate). > >>> > >>> The physical reality is not a mathematical structure among others: > >>> it is the border of the observable from a universal machine > >>> viewpoint. A very peculiar structure implied by mechanism and a > >>> notion of correct self-reference. > >>> > >>> Bruno > >>> > >>> Quentin > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Stathis Papaioannou > >> > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > >> [2]. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > >> [2]. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > >> [2]. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > >> [2]. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Everything List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > >> To post to this group, send email to > >> [email protected] <javascript:>. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > >> [2]. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. > >> > >> > >> Links: > >> ------ > >> [1] http://gmail.com > >> [2] https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > >> [3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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