On 29 July 2018 at 15:46, smitra <[email protected]> wrote: > My final word would be the following. There only exists an eternal > multiverse comprising of all possible observations. Here "observation" is a > complete description that includes everything that is experienced which > includes the identity of the observer. If my knee hurts, then the fact that > it's me that is experiencing this, is actually part of the observation. > > There does not exist a fundamental space-time, and matter, energy etc. don't > exist either. The only things that exist are mathematical objects. We can > then consider operators as mappings from some set to itself as representing > observers. The right kind of operator needed here is a mapping that is > defined by the element of the set itself. So, if you choose an element of > the set, this corresponds to a mapping that applied to that element will map > to another element
This mapping must be one-to-many, correct? Telmo. > which then defines another mapping. The element of the > set contains information that from the point of view of the mapping could > look like a universe filled with matter and energy, and it then perceives > itself as part of that universe. > > Saibal > > > > > On 28-07-2018 20:24, [email protected] wrote: >> >> On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 5:44:54 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 28 Jul 2018, at 01:37, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 7:15:58 PM UTC, [email protected] [1] >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:19:47 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 19:55, <[email protected]> a écrit : >>> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 9:58:47 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 09:26, <[email protected]> a écrit : >>> >>> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 6:31:26 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> Le ven. 27 juil. 2018 à 00:10, <[email protected]> a écrit : >>> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 9:59:49 PM UTC, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 2:08 am, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:30:11 AM UTC, [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 11:24:42 AM UTC, Quentin Anciaux >>> wrote: >>> I still don't get it why some people prefer insulting other people >>> and their ideas instead of discussing or just stay with their own >>> thoughts and just say they disagree... What do you gain by saying >>> they are insane, stupid or whatever? >>> >>> It just looks to me childish. So stop doing this, stop writing in >>> 70pt size red fonts... It's a disfavor to your arguments. >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> In fact, I DO think it's a mental illness. AG >> >> >> It's not just wrong, but a gross dysfunction of judgment. Joe the >> Plumber goes into a lab or his closet, shoots a single electron at a >> slit, and by so doing creates uncountable universes, all with copies >> of himself, replete with his memories. Sure. AG >> >> You may as well protest on the same basis that the universe can’t be >> so wastefully large. >> >> I don't see how that follows. Unfortunately, one cannot PROVE that the >> many worlds allegedly implied by the MWI interpretation don't exist, >> which is why I insist the True Believers are judgment impaired. Do you >> really believe that trivial actions by mere humans, accidents of >> evolution, can create entire universes? AG. >> >> No, because that's not what happens, at every interactions, universes >> split/differentiate... Humans or not. >> >> Humans have nothing to do in the process. >> >> Like I said, the True Believers are judgement impaired. The splitting >> occurs BECAUSE Joe the Plumber DECIDES to perform a single event slit >> experiment. AG >> >> Your judgment is impaired because that 's not what happens, splitting >> happens continuously, Joe the plumber is part of the universe so as >> his thoughts and whatever he does... His decisions are not something >> that exists independently outside of that, Joe the plumber does not >> create universe, any qm interactions split the universe, since the >> beginning of the universe, no humans needed at all. >> 5 >> I MISSPOKE. I JUST MEANT THAT BY DOING A SINGLE EVENT SLIT EXPERIMENT, >> IT IS ALLEGED BY THE MWI THAT THE UNIVERSE SPLITS UNCOUNTABLY. I >> DIDN'T MEAN THAT THE ALLEGED PHYSICAL SPLITTING IS CAUSED BY HUMAN >> CONSCIOUSNESS, IN THIS CASE THE DECISION TO DO THE EXPERIMENT. >> IT'S LIKE A MAN DECIDING TO JUMP OFF A ROOF AND GETS KILLED; HIS >> DEATH IS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY GRAVITY, NOT THAT THE MAN CAUSED THE >> GRAVITY TO EXIST. THE ALLEGED SPLITTING IS NOT DISPROVABLE, JUST >> PLAUSIBLE FOR THOSE WHOSE JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED DUE TO AN OVER >> RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS. AS I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES, WITHOUT ANY >> REASONED RESPONSES, IN E&M WE HAVE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS TO >> MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS, BUT PLANE WAVES DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE. IOW, >> MATHEMATICS MODELING PHYSICAL REALITY CAN SOMETIMES BE MISLEADING AS >> IN THE E&M EXAMPLE. AG >> >> It's you who's using the Joe the plumber argument to make it looks >> like insane... It's just a straw man. Stop using insult and straw man, >> it is useless and childish. >> >> HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, JUST A CITIZEN WHO HAD HIS 15 MINUTES OF FAME IN >> A RECENT US ELECTION. YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME, BUT IT COMES TO THE >> SAME RESULT. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, TELL US ABOUT THE MATHEMATICS >> THAT LEADS TO PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS WHICH DON'T EXIST IN REALITY. >> AG >> >> THE FALLACY IN YOUR REASONING WHICH SUPPORTS THE MWI AND WHICH YOU ARE >> LOATHE TO ADMIT, IS OVER-RELIANCE ON MATHEMATICS, THE BELIEF THAT IT >> ALWAYS GIVES SOLUTIONS THAT EXIST IN PHYSICAL REALITY. >> >> Not at all. The belief in physical superposition comes from single >> photon thought experiences, corroborated by all the experimentation. >> Unlike the plane wave, all experiences suggests that the amplitude of >> the wave counts. >> >> OF COURSE THE AMPLITUDE OF THE WAVE COUNTS. IT'S DIRECTLY USED >> WHEN APPLYING THE POSTULATE FOR CALCULATING THE PROBABILITY. I NEVER >> DENIED IT. WHAT I DID DENY YOU STILL HAVE NO CLUE. I THINK THIS >> DISCUSSION IS A WASTE OF TIME. ENJOY YOUR ILLUSION. GOOD BYE. AG >> >>> In Feynman’s formulation of QM, the wave is recovered from the >>> sum on all path. Attempts to select some parts of the wave are not >>> confirmed by the experiences. >> >> >> I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SUPERPOSTIONS, NOT PATHS. IN CALCULATING THE >> PROBABILITY, WE USE THE INNER PRODUCT OF ONE OF THE EIGENFUNCTIONS, >> THE ONE WHOSE EIGENVALUE WE WISH TO MEASURE, WITH THE WHOLE WAVE. I >> NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID SAY? AG >> >>>> THE PLANE WAVE SOLUTIONS OF ME'S IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I >>>> AM REFERRING TO; MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T EXIST IN >>>> NATURE. AG >>> >>> >>> The whole weirdness of QM is that we can measure effects which in >>> that formalism entails the actuality of counterfactuals. >>> >>> Computationalism is more than OK with this, as it predicted that for >>> almost all universal machine (that is all except a finite number of >>> exception), the reality below its substitution level is an infinite >>> sum of universal machine, and above its substitution level it is a >>> finite sum of universal machine (to handle with). >>> Actually, physical decoherence saves mechanism, and QM, from >>> solipsism. >>> >>> Grayson, you seem to dislike the many-worlds or many-dreams, but >>> eventually, with mechanism, all we need to assume is the >>> many-numbers, or the many-combinators (as I will illustrate). >>> >>> The physical reality is not a mathematical structure among others: >>> it is the border of the observable from a universal machine >>> viewpoint. A very peculiar structure implied by mechanism and a >>> notion of correct self-reference. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Stathis Papaioannou >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> [2]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> [2]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> [2]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> [2]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> [2]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. >> >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://gmail.com >> [2] https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> [3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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