On 12/19/2018 3:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:47 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 7:27 PM Bruce Kellett
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 12:19 PM Jason Resch
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 6:45 PM Bruce Kellett
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jason Resch
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 6:05 PM Bruce Kellett
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 11:02 AM Jason Resch
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 3:23 PM John
Clark <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Arithmetical computationsdon't change
so there can't be a
correspondence between them and the
evolution of spacetime or with
anything else that can change.
"y = 2x+1" defines the arithmetical
relation of "oddness".
Solutions to this equation yield
(compute) for *y* all possible odd
numbers. *y* changes with respect to
increasing values of *x*, just as John
Clark's brain changes with respect to
increasing values of *t*.
How does 'x' change?
With respect to y, and vice versa (like your
brain state and your location in spacetime).
Poor analogy. Change in the physical world is
governed by dynamics, described by equations with a
veritable 't', called time. Time is probably only a
local phenomenon, but I do not see any 'time'
variable in arithmetic.
It depends on the equation.
What equation? There are no dynamics in arithmetic.
There are computations.
The analogy with the block universe idea is useless,
because the block universe idea is only a picture,
not a reality. Special relativity merely abolishes
any notion of Newtonian absolute time, it does not
prove that all instants of time are equally and
simultaneously existent. The whole notion of
simultaneity is abolished in relativity. Minkowski's
block universe was a response to this, but not a very
good picture in the final analysis, because it
completely fails to capture the local dynamical
aspect of the time variable.
Did you read https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/11921131.pdf ?
No. Why should I?
Because you believe relativity cannot be used to justify the
block universe concept.
You still won't believe it after reading the paper. It's full of
falacious reasoning drawing conclusions about simultaneous events
at different places instead of noting that simultaneity is
meaningless for spatially separated events.
Simultaneity is only meaningless between different reference frames.
You mean an imaginary rigid frame that extends across the universe,
which assigns four coordinates to each event with values that cannot be
operationally determined in any way?
There is no spacial limit on how distant the present moment can be
defined, once you assume a reference frame.
"Defined"? How is the defined value to be arrived at? How can it be
operationally determined?
That two adjacent observers, in different reference frames, can have a
completely different (yet fully valid from their own POV) conception
of the present suggests that the naive view of an objective present is
fallacious.
They can't have different conceptions of the present at their shared
location, they can read the same clock. It is only their imaginary
extension to some immeasurable "frame" that is fallacious.
What is your interpretation of the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rietdijk%E2%80%93Putnam_argument
?
The "present" is a local concept which cannot be extended to
global hyperplanes.
Which would means there is no such thing as a present point in time.
I don't know what you mean by "in time". Every event can be
labeled by four coordinate values one of which is "time", but the
coordinate label is not the same as the clock reading of an
observer at that event, and which defines that "present" for that
observer.
The present is everything an observer can conclude to exist at any
particular clock time. If he receives light from the sun at time (t+8
minutes), he can conclude the sun existed at time t.
Yes, along his past light cone. Light cones are invariant structures
which are physically meaningful.
Remember, the only sensible definition of "time" is an
operational definition -- "time is what is measured on a
clock". This is a purely local concept.
So then you have reduced the present to a point in spacetime, a
single event.
Nonsense. An observer can read his clock at every event along his
world line.
Then it would be a worldline that exists, which spans times
(block-time), rather than saying only a single moment in time exists
(presentism).
The worldline doesn't span "block time", it spans clock time along the
worldline...which is different for different paths between two events
(c.f. twins paradox).
Do you agree in principal, that human experience of a
dynamically evolving universe cannot be used to decide
between block time and presentism?
Special relativity certainly cannot be used to justify the
block universe concept.
That wasn't my question. Do you believe your experience rules
out the block universe?
If you mean a pre-determined universe, I think that is ruled out
by quantum randomness.
The Shrodinger equation is deterministic. Quantum Randomness, like a
moving present, is a subjective phenomenon.
That's your theory. You asked what was ruled out by */experience/*.
Brent
But I don't think our experience rules out there being a
4-dimensional map of all events.
Okay.
Jason
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