On 5/5/2019 3:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
How do we know other humans are conscious (we don't, we can only
suspect it).
Why do we suspect other humans are conscious (due to their outwardly
visible behaviors).
Due to the Church-Turing thesis, we know an appropriately programmed
computer can replicate any finitely describable behavior. Therefore a
person with an appropriately programmed computer, placed in someone's
skill, and wired into the nervous system of a human could perfectly
mimic the behaviors, speech patterns, thoughts, skills, of any person
you have ever met.
Do you dispute any of the above?
It assumes you could violate Holevo's theorem to obtain the necessary
program.
If you encountered a close friend who had to get a computer
replacement for his brain (e.g. due to an inoperable tumor), and this
friend displayed perfect mimicry of the behavior prior to the surgery,
would you continue to tell him he his not conscious, despite his
protestations that he is every bit as conscious as before? On what
basis would this your claim rest?
Some of my friends I'd tell him it was amazing how much smarter he was.
Brent
Jason
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 1:33 PM <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Re: "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and "all
matter is conscious"
I do think the first (human brains at least, and perhaps some
non-human brains, from primates to down* the "food-chain").
Some think there was no fully or cognitively conscious (only a
sensory conscious) human before language. There may be something
to that.
But not the second (where there is self and self-awareness).
*Rocks are not conscious.* But the idea is that all matter does
have some level of *elementary protoconsciousness* in various
types, phases, and configurations of matter. When some matter is
combined into certain configurations (like a human brain), these
*protopsychical parts* are fused into something conscious.
* Do Insects Have Consciousness and Ego?
/The brains of insects are similar to a structure in human brains,
which could show a rudimentary form of consciousness/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/
I don't think that societies are conscious, the Earth is
conscious, the universe is conscious.
The Earth is aware of itself? I don't think so.
@philipthrift
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:25:26 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote:
You keep trotting out the term "cybernetic delusion" as if
it's a problem. But it's just an assumption I make, that
consciousness is identified with cybernetic dynamics. I'm
exploring the consequences of that idea, which are compelling
IMO.
You or anyone else can feel free to adopt or not adopt that
assumption. But it's not a delusion. Calling it that suggests
there's a more correct way to view consciousness. But you
haven't been clear about what that is, vacillating between
"only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and "all
matter is conscious". If you adopt panpsychism, you fall prey
to the cybernetic delusion yourself. And when you don't, /you
fail to explain what privileges certain kinds of matter over
others/. It seems pretty clear to me that there's no
principled way to do that... any explanation of why brains can
be conscious but not computers starts to sound suspiciously
like "spirit" and "soul", in the sense that you're invoking
some property of matter that cannot be detected.
Terren
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 4:57 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 8:30:00 PM UTC-5, John Clark
wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:15 PM 'Cosmin Visan'
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> What happens in cases of telepathy is [...].
For example, in cases of dream telepathy[...] This
clearly is a case of dream telepathy./
OK, there was little doubt before but you just made it
official, Cosmin Visanis a crackpot.
John K Clark
/
/
//
Telepathy I doubt pretty bigly, but the cybernetic
delusion is a really crackpot idea.
@philipthrift
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