If you encountered a close friend who had to get a computer
replacement for his brain (e.g. due to an inoperable tumor), and
this friend displayed perfect mimicry of the behavior prior to
the surgery, would you continue to tell him he his not conscious,
despite his protestations that he is every bit as conscious as
before? On what basis would this your claim rest?
Jason
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 1:33 PM <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Re: "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and "all
matter is conscious"
I do think the first (human brains at least, and perhaps some
non-human brains, from primates to down* the "food-chain").
Some think there was no fully or cognitively conscious (only
a sensory conscious) human before language. There may be
something to that.
But not the second (where there is self and self-awareness).
*Rocks are not conscious.* But the idea is that all matter
does have some level of *elementary protoconsciousness* in
various types, phases, and configurations of matter. When
some matter is combined into certain configurations (like a
human brain), these *protopsychical parts* are fused into
something conscious.
* Do Insects Have Consciousness and Ego?
/The brains of insects are similar to a structure in human
brains, which could show a rudimentary form of consciousness/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/
<https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/>
I don't think that societies are conscious, the Earth is
conscious, the universe is conscious.
The Earth is aware of itself? I don't think so.
@philipthrift
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:25:26 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote:
You keep trotting out the term "cybernetic delusion" as
if it's a problem. But it's just an assumption I make,
that consciousness is identified with cybernetic
dynamics. I'm exploring the consequences of that idea,
which are compelling IMO.
You or anyone else can feel free to adopt or not adopt
that assumption. But it's not a delusion. Calling it that
suggests there's a more correct way to view
consciousness. But you haven't been clear about what that
is, vacillating between "only certain kinds of matter can
be conscious" and "all matter is conscious". If you adopt
panpsychism, you fall prey to the cybernetic delusion
yourself. And when you don't, /you fail to explain what
privileges certain kinds of matter over others/. It seems
pretty clear to me that there's no principled way to do
that... any explanation of why brains can be conscious
but not computers starts to sound suspiciously like
"spirit" and "soul", in the sense that you're invoking
some property of matter that cannot be detected.
Terren
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 4:57 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 8:30:00 PM UTC-5, John
Clark wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:15 PM 'Cosmin Visan'
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> What happens in cases of telepathy is
[...]. For example, in cases of dream
telepathy[...] This clearly is a case of
dream telepathy./
OK, there was little doubt before but you just
made it official, Cosmin Visanis a crackpot.
John K Clark
/
/
//
Telepathy I doubt pretty bigly, but the cybernetic
delusion is a really crackpot idea.
@philipthrift
--
You received this message because you are subscribed
to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
emails from it, send an email to
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to
[email protected].
Visit this group at
https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
<https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/optout
<https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it, send an email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.
To post to this group, send email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.
Visit this group at
https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
<https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
<https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.
To post to this group, send email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.
Visit this group at
https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
<https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
<https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
