> On 10 Dec 2019, at 21:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > On 12/10/2019 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> There is. It is what you can expect to feel when doing the experience. In >> Helsinki, you believe that you will survive (because you believe in >> Mechanism, say), and you know with certainty that you will bring a cup of >> coffee, because this has been promised by both the Washingtonians and the >> Moscowians. But for that same reason, you know in Helsinki that both copies >> will have incompatible first person experience, as none will feel to drink >> Russian and American coffee simultaneously. So in H, you know that (always >> assuming Mechanism of course) whatever happens, you will feel to find >> yourself in one city, and you know that it is impossible in Helsinki to >> write its name in the first person diary (the one embarked in the >> annihilation-copy box). > > Aside from the silly back and forth over pronouns,
What is silly? The only silly things appears when 1p and 3p views are obliterated. I am not sure what you are alluding too. > I wonder how the copies in Moscow and Washington can believe they were the > man in Helsinki? Of course the easy answer is they remember being the man in > Helsinki. That is the easy and correct answer indeed, when of course we assume Mechanism, and all the default hypothesis included in the protocol of the experience. > But given this copying ability, they could have been given false memories of > being in Helsinki, Yes, that is why your answer above is correct, and explain why they believe correctly they were the Helsinki guy. No one claimed that they knew for sure to have been the H-guy, although we could decide that the identity is only in that memory,, in which case they remain correct. With mechanism, we know that the truth is only in the number relation, and the memories are always interpretation. > and in fact they cannot be made of the same atoms as the Helsinki man. But of course, that is entirely irrelevant when we assume Digital Mechanism. > So maybe there was no Helsinki man and their "memories" are just fictions. > Are they then conscious of things that never happened? If you can build the memories of some happening, it happened from the first person view related to those memories. Beliefs come from such memories, and what you are doing here is just a remind of the dream argument which shows that no experiences nor memories can prove anything about what is real or not. But we can make theories, and test them, locally. As I said often, the only certainty is consciousness here and now, all the rest is “dreamable", and as such, subject to caution when taken as evidence of a reality. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ebbdf350-82f3-ac94-c1ee-afb2f4202b50%40verizon.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9BC0034D-FDA4-4B00-B7BD-68EDAD9AB8AF%40ulb.ac.be.
