On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 6:20 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > *the question is on the first person experience,* > For the 998th time, given that in Bruno's scenario a first person experience duplicating machine is invoked there is no such thing as *THE *first person experience; so if the "question" is about *THE* first person then the "question" is about absolutely positively nothing. > > *he cannot have any certainty if he will live personally the experience > “I see M” or the experience “I see W”.* > That's 4 personal pronouns with no referent in just 21 words, and that rate is not unusual, such flagrant use of personal pronouns is typical in Bruno's entire thought "experiment" even though the entire purpose of the thing is to discover new stuff about personal identity and forms the foundation of the entire "proof". And yet you ask with a straight face why I stopped reading it! Yes, with Everett if you ask me which version of me will be the man that >> sees the coin come up heads when the coin is tossed tomorrow I will say it >> will be the version of me that sees heads. And yes the answer is banal, but >> then it was a banal question. > > > *> That makes my point.* > Then we agree, when your conclusions are not dead wrong they are banal. It's physically impossible to put myself in the shoes of the guys having > the experiences because 4 feet are involved and I only have 2, there are 2 > guys having *A* first person experience. > > In the 3p description. But that is not what is asked. > It's impossible to say if that's true or not because nobody knows what question was asked, certainly Bruno doesn't. > > *The question was “where do you expect to survive”*. > And my question is who exactly is the referent to the personal pronoun "you" in the above? If the referent is the man that is experiencing H right now on December 9 then obviously even without duplicating machines we can say with absolute certainty "you" will not survive tomorrow because on December 10 nobody will be experiencing H on December 9. But if we take the everyday meaning of the personal pronoun, somebody who remembers being the H man of December 9, then "you" will survive in December 10. And if a you duplicating machine is thrown into the mix then the "you" as used in the above is ambiguous and any question involving it that demands a single answer is ridiculous. > > *The sewer is plain, simple and banal: I expect** to* [...] > And that word "expect" is irrelevant. Who knows what Mr.You expects to happen, perhaps Mr.You expects to end up in Santa Claus's workshop, I neither know or care. I'm interested in what will happen not what somebody expects to happen, and basing personal identity on expectations of the future is nuts. * > FROM THEIR FIRST PERSON VIEW, they did get one bit of information.* > And what was that one bit of information that the W Man got? That he ended up seeing W. And what is the referent to the personal pronoun "he" in the above? "He" refers to the W Man. And what is the W man? The man who sees W. And who is the man who sees W? The W man. And yesterday did the H man already know that all tautologies are true? Yes. So how many new bits of information were learned from this "experiment? Zero bits. Are you sure? Yes, I counted them twice. *> the description of the protocol* [...] Wow protocol, that sounds sooo oficial and scientific, but the reality is to call it amateurish would be to unfairly categorize amateurs. *> You just keep moving from what is asked, which concerns the 1p* [...] > For the 999th time, given that in Bruno's scenario a 1p duplicating machine is involved there is no such thing *THE* 1p, there is only *A* 1p. The fact is I have no idea what exactly is asked and you know even less about it than I do. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2J7Hz8Goae6qPYYsihVtzkpZYcVC3_vm9tR%3DNS8mkeiQ%40mail.gmail.com.
