On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 10:33 PM John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 5:02 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 7:41 PM smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> *>> For example, in the MWI picture from Bob's point of view, when he
>>>> measures his spin, he knows that the spin state of Alice in his sector is
>>>> the opposite.*
>>>
>>>
>>> >That is the question. How does he know this?
>>>
>>
>> In Many Worlds he knows this because when Bob makes a measurement the
>> universe (which includes Alice) splits into 2, in one universe Bob's photon
>> is polarized up and Alice's photon is polarized down, and in the other
>> universe Bob's photon is polarized down and Alice's photon is polarized up.
>> And that is entirely consistent with Alice's view of the situation. When
>> Alice makes a measurement the universe (which includes Bob) splits into 2,
>> in one universe Alice's photon is polarized up and Bob's photon is
>> polarized down, and in the other universe Alice's photon is polarized down
>> and Bob's photon is polarized up. In Many Worlds there are no universes
>> that have up-up or down-down photons because that would violate
>> Schrodinger's Equation which demands that angular momentum be conserved,
>> and the one and only assumption Many Worlds makes is that Schrodinger's
>> equation means what it says.
>>
>>
>>> > He is at a spacelike separation and cannot, locally, know either
>>> Alice's polarizer setting, or her result..
>>>
>>
>> That is nonsense, the experiment has been performed many many times and
>> Bob ALWAYS makes the correct prediction about the polarization of Alice's
>> photon.
>>
>> > He cannot know that his spin state is opposite, because he cannot know
>>> 'opposite to what?'
>>>
>>
>> Huh? Opposite to the polarization measurement that Bob just made,
>> obviously.
>>
>
>
> *> It's a shame that we have spent so much time arguing about this when it
> is clear that you do not have the remotest understanding of what the issues
> actually are. The opposite polarization states you mention above are a
> direct consequence of the non-locality of the non-separable entangled spin
> state.*
>
Right, if Many Worlds and all other non-realistic theories turn out to be
wrong then things really are non-local, unless they're superdetermined, but
that's ridiculous.
As I said in a private communication with you:
"There is room in the multiverse for there to be a universe that contains
an Alice who sets her polarizer to ANY angle you care to name, and every
one of those universes also contains a Bob who has set his polarizer
parallel to Alice's. And when one sees up polarization ("up" being defined
as the arbitrary angle Alice decides to set her polarizer) the other is
absolutely positively 100% certain to see "down" and vice versa.
There are, of course, universes in which Alice and Bob set their polarizers
(or Stern–Gerlach magnets) at angles that are neither parallel nor
orthogonal, but in such universes quantum reality experiments of this sort
cannot be performed because the entanglement between the photons (or
electrons) would be destroyed, so they're irrelevant. Entanglement is
absolutely necessary to perform these experiments that's why, although
simple in principle, they're devilishly hard to perform in practice."
*> Until you can grasp this fact, then we are going nowhere.*
>
Then I guess we're going nowhere because I don't know what the hell your
problem is, the fact that you cannot specify your problem makes me suspect
there is no problem, at least not in this universe.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
nwm
>
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