On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 5:28 PM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 5:01 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> *> There are easier and harder tests than the Turing test. I don't know >> why you say it's the only test we have. Also: would passing the Argonov >> test (which I described in my document on whether zombies are possible) not >> be a sufficient proof of consciousness? Note that the Argonov test is much >> harder to pass than the Turing test.* >> > > I have a clear understanding of exactly what the Turing Test is, but I am > unable to get a clear understanding of exactly, or even approximately, what > the Argonov test is. I know it has something to do with "phenomenal > judgments" but I don't know what that means and I don't know what I need to > do to pass the Argonov Test, so I guess I'd fail it. And because of my > failure to understand the test it seems that I've been wrong all my life > about being conscious and really I am a philosophical zombie. > “Phenomenal judgments” are the words, discussions, and texts about consciousness, subjective phenomena, and the mind-body problem. […] In order to produce detailed phenomenal judgments about problematic properties of consciousness, an intelligent system must have a source of knowledge about the properties of consciousness. [...] Consider a deterministic intelligent machine having no innate philosophical knowledge or philosophical discussions while learning. Also, the machine does not contain informational models of other creatures (that may implicitly or explicitly contain knowledge about these creatures’ consciousness). If, under these conditions, the machine produces phenomenal judgments on all problematic properties of consciousness, then, according to [the postulates], materialism is true and the machine is conscious. — Victor Argonov in “Experimental Methodsfor Unraveling the Mind-Body Problem: The Phenomenal Judgment Approach” (2014) Jason > > See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > pzx > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3DiWF-qSnKRkpu_oRKG%2BhASJE86inx%2BNYYqk7fZ69LXw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3DiWF-qSnKRkpu_oRKG%2BhASJE86inx%2BNYYqk7fZ69LXw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUj5euGRoNkcgSDLYRd1hs1Df%2Bs2jf4cV3uf6%3D%2BvrxnW%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com.
