On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 6:00 PM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 5:33 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > > *> Consider a deterministic intelligent machine having no innate >> philosophical knowledge or philosophical discussions while learning. Also, >> the machine does not contain informational models of other creatures (that >> may implicitly or explicitly contain knowledge about these creatures’ >> consciousness). If, under these conditions, the machine produces phenomenal >> judgments on all problematic properties of consciousness, then, according >> to [the postulates], materialism is true and the machine is conscious.* >> > > Who judges if the "phenomenal judgments" of the machine are correct or > incorrect? Even humans can't agree among themselves about most > philosophical matters, certainly that's true of members of this list. > They don't have to be correct, as far as I know. The machine just has to make phenomenal judgements (without prior training on such topics). If a machine said "I think, therefore I am", or proposed epiphenomenalism, without having been trained on any philosophical topics, those would constitute phenomenal judgements that suggest the machine possesses consciousness. And the fact is many, perhaps most, human beings don't think about deep > philosophical questions at all, they find it all to be a big bore, so does > that mean they're philosophical zombies? > Failing the test doesn't imply a lack of consciousness. But passing the test implies the presence of consciousness. And just because a machine can pontificate about consciousness, what > reason, other than Argonov's authority, would I have for believing the > machine was conscious? > That there must be a source of information to permit the making of phenomenal judgements, and since the machine was not trained on them, what else, would you propose that source could be, other than consciousness? Jason > I'm going to take a break from the list right now because I wanna watch > Joe Biden's new press conference .... ah... I think I think I wanna watch > it it > > See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > bfq > > >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1Vc%2BxDqYGT9uz8TNNvLb5nijcJePj2yTzN74c%2BJK5NNQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1Vc%2BxDqYGT9uz8TNNvLb5nijcJePj2yTzN74c%2BJK5NNQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUhQMYTCG_3AH0GOobmOefeq44b0-_iZ_sk6bQNqsT9msQ%40mail.gmail.com.
