On Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 7:02 AM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 7:01 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Who judges if the "phenomenal judgments" of the machine are correct or >>> incorrect? Even humans can't agree among themselves about most >>> philosophical matters, certainly that's true of members of this list. >>> >> >> *> They don't have to be correct, as far as I know. The machine just has >> to make phenomenal judgements (without prior training on such topics).* >> > > The AI's responses don't have to be correct?! Generating philosophical > blather > about consciousness is the easiest thing in the world because there is > nothing to work on, there are no facts that the blather must fit. For it to > rise a little above the level of blather you've got to start with an > unproven axiom such as "*consciousness is the way data feels when it is > being processed and thus I am not the only conscious being in the universe*". > > > >> *> Failing the test doesn't imply a lack of consciousness. But passing >> the test implies the presence of consciousness.* >> > > So the Argonov Test has the same flaw that the Turing Test has, and is far > easier to pass. For a computer to pass the Turing Test it must be able to > converse intelligently, but not too intelligently, ON ANY SUBJECT, but to > pass the Argonov Test it only needs to be able to prattle on about > consciousness. > > > *> there must be a source of information to permit the making of >> phenomenal judgements, and since the machine was not trained on them, what >> else, would you propose that source could be, other than consciousness?* >> > > From your questions to the AI. When I meet someone we don't spontaneously > start talking about consciousness, it only happens when one of us steers > the conversation into that direction, and that seldom happens (except on > this list) because usually both of us would rather talk about other things. > > Do you think that passing the Argonov test would constitute positive proof of consciousness? Jason > See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > ubu > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3QeUwqAay0GfDmXXwySOhQj-%2BBSbfiZcqvMdhGrNq%2BGQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3QeUwqAay0GfDmXXwySOhQj-%2BBSbfiZcqvMdhGrNq%2BGQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUh%2BkS-i_n3BTVcB%3D92M0VfESR6n_Ua14fYj4aEFMmCQBQ%40mail.gmail.com.
