Oh Hey Matrix, didn't know you had recognized Guru Rinpoche. All spiritual effort is towards the Great Work.
Putting down other people's paths is wrong speech. TM is not different from Dzogchen. if it was that would mean Dzogchen existed somewhere or sometime. But Samanthabhadra would deny that! What is is! That's it! There is nothing else! Of course one must clear perception to what is. Perfect relaxation is the basic means. ----- Original Message ----- From: "matrixmonitor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote > ---On a conceptual basis, yes...Dzogchen takes place somehow beyond > all progressions, and (as Vaj so astutely pointed out); doesn't > involve the transmission of Shakti (unlike Muktananda's Shaktipat). > But on a practical basis, (as Vaj so unastutely failed to mention); > one (the aspirant) is still confronted with the problems of ingrained > inertia, stress, vasanas;...etc; all of the traditional Buddhist (or > otherwise) impediments to Enlightenment - such as the "vices" - that > we may allude to as behavioral patterns connected to stress - that > simply don't vanish in the blink of an eye when one attends a > Dzogchen retreat. Even as pointed out by the greatest of Dzogchen > Masters (Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche among them - this is Vaj's Guru); the > element of TIME invariably creeps in, and although one may "get it" > (i.e. Grok "IT" to a certain extent); the fact remains that unless > one is 99.999....% already realized, various impediments dissalow > one's immediate Enlightenment even though the Dzogchen transmission > is immediate. > Unfortunately, most of the Buddhist Gurus (except possibly the > Dalai Lama and a few others); haven't YET gotten the connection > between the delay in one's hoped for immediate Enlightenment and the > stark reality of time, time, time... ; and the possible cause of that > delay: stress. But thanks to MMY, we new insights into the > phenomenon of the progression toward Enlightenment; but at the same > time, nothing is preventing people from "Grok"-ing the fact that they > are already "IT". (even though tomorrow morning and the day after, > one may have to Grok this again). > Contrary to what the Neo-Advaitins like HWL Poonja would have us > believe, simply Groking "IT" for the first time may be insufficient; > and likewise, simply receiving a Dzogchen transmission a single time > may not get people immediately Enlightened. Like it or not, a > progression of time is usually involved, due to ingrained stresses. > Though MMY is not really one of my personal Gurus (I'm a devotee of > Padma Sambhava), may he be praised forever for coming up with TM and > the connection between progressive Realization and the concept of > stress release. Praise God! But in defense of Dzogchen, one simply > ditch the attitude that one is not already Pure Consciousness (and > then continue with the practice of TM tomorrow and the day after, and > the day after....). > > In [email protected], kaladevi93 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote: >> > >> > > ---Vaj, but this is the "initial" stage, ...even from the POV > of your >> > > Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization >> > > requires at least, time and abundant practice. Perhaps Norbu is >> > > missing an important point regarding bodily purification; > and...I >> > > contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is >> > > superior to Norbu's. This is not a case of "my Guru is > superior to >> > > yours". Just look at the facts. >> > >> > >> > You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students > recently >> > going insane? >> > >> > Thanks for reminding me. >> > >> >> I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: Dzogchen > begins where Unity >> ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's "official" comments, > right Vaj? >> >> Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth. >> > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
