On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Jack <gykazequ...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> You may not consider it reliable, and Dennis may have some odd
>>> problem accessing it, but that website <http://ms-dos7.hit.bg>
>>> did give me, on 5-Dec-2013, a working 2-diskette copy of V7.10
>>> which I was able to "install" on my system ...
>> Do a ping, whois, traceroute, or nslookup on it.   Tell me what
>> you get.
> Wish I could, but I have none of those on my system.   Fact is, I

They are highly useful tools, and available online as well in addition
to being local commands.

What do you use as a browser, and how do you reach the Internet?

> DETEST the Internet -- I remember when it was totally "free", and
> absolutely NOT as "commercial" as it is now!   DISGUSTING, to me,
> that almost all "news" URLs now force you to receive 500K or more
> of damned ADVERTISEMENTS, BEFORE you get one word of "news"!   My
> system is still dial-up which saves "BIG BUCKS" for retirees like
> me, and I often ABANDON such miserable websites BEFORE they deign
> to offer me useful items!   I use the Bloody Internet mainly as a
> vehicle for E-Mail.   NO personal website, and I do not want one.

You need to learn more about the Internet.  For instance, blocking
those 500K or more of ads is trivial.  I don't see them, because I do.
 And sorry, but *something* has to pay for those "free" services that
cost actual time and money to provide, and ads are what pays for them.
 "Free" in this context means "Someone *else* pays for it. I don't."

>>> The 2-diskette installation set for V7.10 MS-DOS, available on
>>> that site, does work well, and it rather STRONGLY suggests its
>>> "installer" was written by Microsoft.
>> Like I said, it's also available from the last Internet.org crawl
>> if others have the same difficulty I did.
> Good to know.   I can also imagine that you and I may be on two
> different "legs" of the Internet.   Perhaps your "leg" does not
> handle websites in Bulgaria the same as mine does.

My leg doesn't like it at all.  I get nowhere trying to reach the
underlying IP address instead of relying on DNS resolution, and the
underlying IP address *should* work.

>>> And re: your comment that "You can't 'freely' download, modify
>>> or redistribute any DOS besides FreeDOS", I can only say again
>>> that the above website most-certainly DID work for me!
>> Freely in this context is generally taken to include "legally".
>> This isn't.   You may not *care*, but that doesn't change the
>> legality.
> I remain UNCONVINCED that the above site, or any others with that
> same release of V7.10 MS-DOS, is in fact illegal.

If Microsoft has not formally released MS-DOS 7.10 as a freely
available download, it's *not* legal under US law, which is what we're
concerned with.  Countries in the former Soviet Union have
historically not cared about US law in this sort of case, so it's
probably legal for the Bulgarian site to host the download under
Bulgarian law.  It's *not* legal to download and use it under US law

There's a lot of "abandonware" out there that is no longer
sold/supported but never explicitly cut loose by the vendors, and
sites that specialize in it.  The legal status is at best murky.

Whether a vendor will take action will be governed by money.  Taking
action costs money.  A vendor will do so if they are *aware* of the
availability of the software on the Internet, and think they see lost
revenue sufficient to justify taking action.  (And taking action
against a site in someplace like Russia or Bulgaria will be much more
time consuming and expensive.  You can't just send a DMCA
"cease-and-desist" order, because those countries aren't subject to US
laws about such things.)

MS is likely not aware of the MS-DOS 7.10 distribution from the
Bulgarian host, and probably won't care enough to take action if they
are.  It's not like they are losing sales.  But "They don't care"
isn't the same thing as "It's legal."

Yes, it's a technical distinction, but an important one.  "Legal"
means "In compliance with applicable laws."  Unless the vendor has
formally released software they no longer sell or support as freeware,
usable at your own risk, the software, while available, is not
technically legal.

> Jack R. Ellis

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