Thanks Lawry. I haven't been paying much attention to the list lately, so I
may be quite wrong about potshots. I'll have to start taking the list a little
more seriously again.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: de Bivort Lawrence
To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] The 'New Normal' of Unemployment
Hi, Ed,
I am only now getting caught up on postings here -- and there are a lot of
them -- and have not seen those threads that I imagine you are referring to,
Ed. No one, including, Arthur, wants, deserves, or needs potshots to be taken
at them, and my message to Arthur is not meant to refer to or parallel any
other discussions here. My message refers solely to the one post he made that
is copied. If my message to Arthur came at a time when he is being attacked in
any of the threads here, I certainly do not mean to 'pile on.'
Cheers,
Lawry
On Jan 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Ed Weick wrote:
From what I've seen on the list lately, I think the pot shot are being
aimed at Arthur.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: de Bivort Lawrence
To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] The 'New Normal' of Unemployment
Poor Arthur!
You just can't control your desire to take potshots at Islam, can you?
Is this revenge for anti-Semitism? If it is, you should know that
anti-Semitism does not come from the Islam, but from Europeans and,
increasingly, Americans.
Some day, Arthur, you may actually set out to learn something about
Islam. It will open your eyes. So much of what you could learn would surprise
and delight you.
But somehow you have become invested in bashing Islam, in the same way
that anti-Semites bash Jews.
As for the 30s and the 60s, I know of many intellectuals in the 30s and
know many in the 60s who were not "taken" with Russia, nor Mao. What silly
generalizations you allow yourself!
Why be part of the world of hate and ignorance? Why do you let such
nonsense detract from your ability to think?
Lawry
On Jan 18, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Arthur Cordell wrote:
Be careful of what you embrace, it might turn around and bite you later
on.
Intellectuals in the 30’s were equally taken with Russia, intellectuals
in the 60’s were equally taken with Mao. Some intellectuals are taken with
Islam today.
Intellectuals seeking total solutions sometimes grab on to total
ideologies not realizing that change comes bit by bit. Small bites are more
easily digestible.
A revolution is not a tea party. Be careful of what you ask for. Do
you have smooth hands and wear glasses? The Khmer Rouge would have you killed
for this “crime” since it is clear that you are not a worker.
As Clinton would say, “I feel your pain” but there is little I can
offer to ease that pain.
arthur
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Harrell
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 10:48 PM
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] The 'New Normal' of Unemployment
In human systems, what is it that resists a descent into apathetic
randomness?
You may be right about our inability to communicate but I’ve made my
way out of more than one cave-in when I’ve tried cross cultural communication.
It seems to me that there are certain tools necessary in the designing of a
society. It also seems to me that the knowledge of the past and the knowledge
of historical systems is also necessary. It also seems to me that most of
that knowledge is stored in cultural artifacts and to a large degree in works
for the stage, film, concert hall, opera house etc.
You can learn very little about the context for the U.S. Constitution
if you never been to New England or walked the hills of Tennessee and Georgia.
The extant architecture, the literature, the culture contained within the
schools and the churches and the expressions themselves all provide an insight
into what made this world come into being. You have to look through the
American problem of “face” and the tendency to make history “nice” for the
legacy. As Obama said in Tucson, we need to be civil but we need to speak
the truth as well.
We need to study the two industrial revolutions, the break-up of the
old families in the remaking of the schools, the assumption of complex culture
by the wealthy beginning with Higginson at Harvard and Boston, the revamping of
the educational structure at the turn of the century into the current
professional forms and specialties, the entrance of the German and Viennese
intellectuals escaping from Hitler into the University of Chicago which has fed
the current revolution down to the current President. It seems that it is
hard to know how things came to be unless you are serious about cause and
effect.
And finally there is the rise of the “core value” of society as
monetary which is a new bird. As recent as the 1960s Paul Tillich and
Reinhold Niebuhr said that the definition of faith in your God was what you
held to be your core value. Today’s core values are monetary which according
to the two theologians [and I believe Martin Buber would have agreed] that
money has become the God of the current world. So whatever money does is OK.
Is that a world that you would build if you were doing as the Chinese
economists, artists and engineers and designing a society and a future culture?
I spoke with one of my Elders today whose son is an urban planner. He’s
spending his time learning Mandarin. The exciting part of the world for
today’s architects is China and for others it’s the Islamic world. Both
have the power to design a society. One from an aristocracy and the other
from an authoritarian, evidently [hopefully] benevolent cultural world view.
Why no entropy there? Why no trains across America? Why claptrap old
cars and airports closed killing the business of the American small towns?
Entropy? or excuse? I’m not sure how to talk to you? Like the man
skiing down Everest, “nothing works.” I like you and admire your list and
your work here but it feels like there’s no answer.
REH
- Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia<image001.png>
Droit de seigneur or lord's right, often used synonymously with jus
primae noctis or simply primae noctis and its translation right of the first
night, ...
History - Similarities to other traditions - Literary and other
references - References
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_seigneur - Cached - Similar
►
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 9:41 PM
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] The 'New Normal' of Unemployment
You mean do societies wind down or become more chaotic over time?
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Harrell
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 7:08 PM
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] The 'New Normal' of Unemployment
Arthur, what do you think about entropy as applied to societies?
REH
Snip, snip, snip…………..
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