Problem is this. A lot of people have very limitted budgets, and so they
can't just plink 200 bucks down on a  console and a game with out some
garanteed assurance they are going to enjoy it.  And the fact is. Not
everyone likes fighting games, so if you don't like fighting games or rhythm
games, then you are pretty much out of luck. There's the ocasional sports
game that seems to work some what if you dumb down the AI, but you guys have
to be realistic.  As I've said before, we are a minority which is fine, but
do not berate people just because they don't like what you like.  Let me end
this post with something constructive. I highly suggest that someone creates
a list for mainstream VI gaming.  This may provide a more encouraging
environment for those who may have some interest in this kind of thing but
don't know where to get started.  I actually would be willing to reserect we
can play. But. And here's the but. I need help on it. For those who are
knew, We can play was a site dedicated to providing game info such as
screens, menus, and other pertanent information. Noone submitted anything,
and so it was not worth my time to run it. It has a list that goes with it
though, and this might be an excelent place for those who are interested in
mainstream gaming. What do yall think?


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of Clement Chou
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustrations with the blind gaming community

So I decided to wait til everyone addressed their views before I jumped in.
Here goes..

Yohandy, while I feel the same frustration as you do though not quite to
that level, I do think that people will only be willing to go so far. I do
think, however, that most people here are a bit mistaken on how long it
takes to learn a mainstream game whether you're blind or not. Sighted people
take just as long as we do to familiarize themselves with the game, it's
just in different ways. As many people know, I am a huge, huge fighting game
enthusiast, with rock band as a close second. The thing with fighting games,
I find, is that there is so much replay value that isn't appreciated, by
blind or sighted folks alike. Any fighting game fan knows that there are
more than just combos to a fighting game. There's mind games, spacing,
bating, mix ups... so much to deal with, yet noone thinks about it. All
people play fighters for is the graphics and audio, and strategy and
gameplay at a deeper level is almost completely overlooked. These are the
same people who list anime-based games as fighting games, and those are more
considered brawlers and yes, there is a difference. 
Anime-based games, though they appear to be complicated, are actually a lot
more basic than most fighting games. As an example, at Evo which is the
biggest fighting game tournament and convention held in the world, you will
never see something like Dragon Ball Z: Budokai. 
Why? Because the controls are simple, and strategy is only minimally found.

Pressing buttons, hoping for magic.

This is not as bad as most people might think. Sighted people take just as
much time to learn combos, button sequences, etc that we take. There are
many games that won't let you do well by button mashing. Devil May cry, for
example, has always had something called the style meter. This depicts how
much style you finish off your opponent with, and you're rated accordingly.
So you can't just button mash your way through a crowd of enemies... what
options do you have? 
Are you going to use your Sword to knock an enemy into the air and gun him
down? Or are you going to pick up an enemy through him into a crowd and
blast away? Fighting games especially need timing and precise reactions.

Getting on topic here though... Yohandy, I think Liam's right. We're in a
small minority, and that doesn't look like it's going to change. 
Yet to the people defending the argument... I urge you all to consider this.
Takes a bit of time to learn menus, sure. But that's what the rest of us are
for, right? If there were more people who played mainstream games, we could
colaberate and write structures, screens and the  rest of it. And as for
move lists and the like? The internet is a big place... and there are many
websites specifically dedicated to fighting games. And again, just because
we take long time to learn the games, doesn't mean that it's a legit excuse
not to play. Neither Yohandy and Ihave infinite supplies of time, as someone
put it. You give the game what time you have, and gradually, step by step,
you get better.

Now, while I think Yohandy has a lot of good points I do think that most VI
gamers should give mainstream games another chance. Start with a ps2 and
move your way up. That's the most afordable way, and the ps2 probably has
the biggest collection of fighting games including collections and
anthologies. Memorizing menus seems daunting at first, but you get used to
it and soon you don't even have to think about it anymore.

I think the thing that frustrates me is the fact that there's so little
interest in the first place. If people don't want to buy it, fine, but I
think discussions can still be had so people know what's available should
they choose to some time in the future. And it surprises me every time I see
someone other than Yohandy commenting on my posts with more than a one-liner
saying that's cool. Thomas, for example, when I posted about MVC 3 and MK 9.
Tom I hope you don't mind me using you as an example... and hopefully I get
a response from this that isn't negative... but it surprised me to hear that
you were planing to get MVC 3. The XBOX360 didn't surprise me, I figured
you'd get it for more of them adventure games and the like... but hearing
that you were going to pick up MVC 3 was a pleasant surprise.

In conclusion, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. There are games
that I would love to try out, 2d platformers and rpgs to start with. But
fighting games do get a bit of an underrating where I'm concerned... but I
do think, overall, that it wouldn't hurt some more of the VI community to at
least show interest when I post samples. 
And also, it isn't that much to buy consoles nowadays... you can get a ps3
for 250 bucks easy, maybe less if you buy used. But let's try and keep this
discussion civil, and try not to respond too harshly.

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