Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote:
What I would like to do is to hear from Howard himself (or anyone working on the HiveMind project)! I'm particularly interested in how Avalon can leverage some of the technologies in HiveMind, and I'm equally confident in the ability of Avalon to provide value-add to the HimeMind project - and I'm not talking about
>>classic avalon component interfaces - I'm talking about generic >>container-side facilities.
> inside Avalon. My Blob (http://javatapestry.blogspot.com) discusses
The is a potential for mutual benefit. Isn't that worth exploring?
I aggree with Andy's comments below ... you can't "incubate" HiveMind
this as well, with some other insights (partly into my own neuroticism).
Just a point of clarification. Avalon is *not* going to incubate anything. HiveMind *will not exist* inside Avalon. This is simply because Avalon is not engaging in multi-container incubation - period. What Avalon is doing - and what is relevant to your initative and Avalon - it the work going on towards the delivery of a set of common container facilities. There is potential for HimeMind to leverage this and for Avalon to leverage content in HiveMind with respect to this viewpoint and only this viewpoint.
Avalon is a community - and within that community is an effort to harmonize different directions in component models taking into account the differences across internal development, and
>>external iniatives. HiveMind is another aspect in that picture. >>This means more potential, leveraged code, skills, knowledge, >>users, etc. I happen to think that there is potential in getting >>together and talking about things like leverage, synergy, projects, >>etc.
I've considered HiveMind an experiment, and experiment that
> concludes when the community is formed and the code is mature. > The nature of open source and the ASL is very fluid; the best > ideas from HiveMind can be cherry-picked from the mature
codebase. What I'm nervous about is bringing HiveMind into Avalon and mucking up other people's code with my vision.
Let me make something real clear!!!!
A HiveMind product will not land in Avalon. Period. Full-stop. Will-not-happen. Get this notion of HiveMind in Avalon of you mind forever. Can HiveMind contribute to what is happening in Avalon - yes. Is this clear to everyone on this list? Avalon is not a resting place for a particular container project. Avalon is not about incubation. HiveMind will not be some subproject in Avalon. I will not happen! Take my word for it. And this has nothing to do with HiveMind content - its simply a question concerning the strategy in Avalon. The stategy is not about multiple containers - its not even about a single container. Its about the contract and the framework for solutions.
I hope that helps clarify things a touch. Sorry if I sound like I'm repating myself but I'm kind of anoyed with some of the miss-information that has been floating around here recently!
While Hivemind is a virgin idea that needs community
building, and is not ready for Jakarta -- it is surely not ready for Avalon either. I would be against its entry into
>>>Jakarta ATM (and I doubt Howard would propose it). However, >>>I think it is ripe for foundry at jakarta commons or some >>>place appropriate for starting a community.
Obviously it should be watched for eventual entry as a Jakarta
>>> project. Howard is obviously now qualified to sponsor it in >>> the incubator himself (as I've pretty much vowed never to >>> incubate anything ever again,
>>>that quagmire of bureaucratic procedure again**).
I'd rather focus my efforts outside of Apache than go through
Well, the incubator will be a challenge but there will be explicit rules for leaving incubation and
I won't tolerate the incubators going beyond their mandate. The mandate is to show an active
community working together and to ensure that there are no IP problems in HiveMind or its depdendant
libraries. We will ensure that the mandate and exit rules are explicit before we start.
Those procedures have been develped with the principal of holding the Incubator PMC accountable step by step from the point of view of people aiming to exit incubation. The procedures should help make an exit rapid and successful.
Howard - can you do me a favour and kick of a thread actually detailing what we want - and throw into it what you think or don't think should be your relationship with Avalon. Please keep in mind that everything I've seen so far suggests that you have a 12-18 out-of-date picture of what avalon is and what avalon is doing - and I want to clear that up. I suggested you post a message on [EMAIL PROTECTED] as part of the process. I still think that that the right place to discuss this.
I have a backlog of avalon-dev mail to catch up on.
No problem. Don't hesitate to jump in with questions.
As an Avalon principal, I can assure you that Avalon is not a threat to >>the potential of an independent HiveMind project
>>(irrespective of Andrew's ideas of reality). Start talking with >>us (here or there) and you may find an ally.
Of course, while the HiveMind IP fiasco resolves itself, I have some spare time to catch up. To be honest, one of the things that has been an issue for me is the Avalon documentation; many of my questions aren't resolved by the docs I could find, and I have been short on time for wading into the code.
If you have unresolved questions please post them to the dev list. We (Avalon crowd) have recently updated the entire website. So far feedback has been rather positive. You will not find much content on the big picture - for that you really need to raise the relavent questions on the list.
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