On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 12:40:37AM +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Perhaps you should stop looking at the dialog and just blindly enter
> paths. It works surprisingly well.

I just told you that this is not true.

Then you told me you'd not ignore complaints.

Now you tell me what I should do instead and that it would work "surprisingly

I don't know what "I am smoking", but this very compaint has come up a number
of times, and your only reaction is to talk it down.

No, it does not at all work surprisingly well. It is *extremely* slow, it
hinders, it flickers, it destroys the selection, it pops up a window. It
feels like an ugly kludge and certainly does not wor "surprisingly well".

But you should know that.

We can argue wether it works "surprisingly well" because it's not clear
what it means. To me, this surprisingly well working input is an annoyance
and slow-down compared to the simple and fast gtk+1.0 selector. Just
compare it to your typical shell: path input time: very few seconds. gtk+:
ranging form 5+ seconds to minutes (not counting the time it takes to open
the dialog). And no flickering in the shell, no extra popups and it does
not even destroy your selection.

Obvously, the very term "surprisingly well" is meaningless because other
people have different definitons for what works well.

And you keep ignoring this. Really. Maybe you just don't understand it. I
don't know. I am 100% sure it's not malice!

One thing is that people, and _many_ people, just want their location
entry back, for lots of reasons: discoverability, pastability and so
on. But for some reason this simply does not happen.

This is an example where lots of people continually *are* being ignored
because the new design is supposedly better.

> There's no such atttitude. The new file chooser has bugs and they need
> to be fixed. Asking us to revert to the old widget is however not an
> option.

That might be true, but *if* the old widget was better for the users it
should be reverted, no question to be asked. Again, there is an *if* in
that sentence.

(Also, I really don't see the many bugs. I see misdesign, but I would not
call that a bug. There were design decisions involved, and these might be
good for some uses and bad for others. At least the problems I have with
the dialogs do not seem to be bugs at all, but simply design decisions).

I often heard argumnts like "it was a lot of work to design and
implement", but there is a logical fallacy in that (a red herring): no
matter how much work it was, if the result is bad, it is bad.

(Now, there are probably good sides to the new file dialog, but none of
the new features mean anything to me, so for me it is only negative).

You also said file dialogs should go away (in some distant future) and
people should use drag&drop. This is another very bad way to force
unnatural (for some) workflow on people: for one thing, drag&drop
doesn't work very wlel under X, for another thing it is quite difficult
to actually "drag&drop" while prpessing your mouse button for some
people. Even I who can easily do drga&drop find for example the selection
much easier, because I can do things in etween and do not have to press
hte button all the time, which improves my aim.

The new file dialog gets more and more byzantine, without offering the
simple and effective interface that the old dialog. Now I hear in the long
term people should switch from it completey.

That is the wrong direction, IMHO.

                The choice of a
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