On Nov 26, 3:11 pm, Alastair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Problems with the MSU derived UAH TLT were noted some time before the
> > papers in SCIENCE.
>
> Not as far as I know. S&C claimed that their results showed that
> global warming was not happening. It did not. It only showed that the
> models were wrong. I made the same mistake as everyone else and
> thought that S&C were a couple of charlatans. But when I realised that
> their results agreed with what I was finding I realised my mistake.
>
> > The simple fact is that S & C have repeatedly
> > claimed that their product was without flaw for more than 15 years,
> > claims which have been shown to be incorrect.
>
> Of course they said their product had no flaws. They did not know of
> any until M&W pointed them out at the end of those 15 years.
>
> > It would seem that you
> > want to believe the S & C results, without any comment to refute the
> > claims by others that there were errors. Sorry, that's not what is
> > called science. Take a look at what Mears and Wentz at RSS do to
> > produce their MSU analysis. I appreciate their providing this much
> > detail:
>
> >http://www.ssmi.com/data/msu/support/Mears_and_Wentz_TLT_submitted.pdf
>
> S&C provided M&W with details of all their methods. Why don't you
> appreciate the worlk od S&C? Can't you see that you are only
> supporting M&W because they are telling you what you want to hear?
Having analyzed some of the S & C TLT data a while back, I do think my
complaints about their work is based on more than some choice based on
results. There are still problems with the S & C analysis, which I
have presented as part of the CCSP process. I also wrote an
unpublished critique.
> > The fact that changes in atmospheric transmission within the CO2 bands
> > have been measured as CO2 has increased wouldn't faze you at all, I
> > suppose.
>
> If it was greater than what I expect then it certainly would. There
> will be a small increase in global warming due to bandwidth
> broadening, but since the main CO2 band is saturated the effect will
> be small. But if you have details I would be very interested to see
> them.
What do you think about the Spencer Weart's AIP writeup? You will
note that the analysis didn't become firm until after WW II (down the
page, ref26 or so).
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm
The data I've seen was in an unpublished report. Your comment about
pressure broadening refers to near surface physics. The real issue is
what happens in the stratosphere where there's little water vapor and
the CO2 lines are not saturated, AIUI.
> > >Horace-> Benedict de Saussure said as much in his letter to the Journal
> > >de Paris 17th April 1784:
>
> > > "One could imagine some complicated system of reflections maybe and of
> > > repeated radiations, that multiply the effect of the solar rays
> > > endlessly; but I utterly rejected that idea when it presented itself
> > > to my mind, because the immortal Newton proved that bodies are warmed
> > > by the light that they absorb, and not by that which they transmit or
> > > that they reflect."
>
> > Which says next to nothing about the absorption/emission of energy by
> > gases. Gases are not solid bodies. They do not follow the same
> > physics of black body thermal emissions.
>
> De Saussure was writing about the greenhouse effect, which he
> discovered 40 years before Fourier's paper where he reported de
> Saussure's work.
It took another 250 years to get to the level of understanding needed
to quantify the radiative physics of gases. See the reference above.
E. S.
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