----- Original Message ----- > From: Onno Meyer <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > >> >> I often refer to the M2 Bradley as an oversized light tank > carrying an >> >> under-strength infantry squad, too big fr one job and too small > for the >> >> other. The BMP carries more men but is more of a deathtrap. >> > >> > What is the alternative? Walking light infantry? A MBT-sized vehicle >> > without guns? >> >> I see two approaches: a 'battlefield taxi' (basically a highly > updated M113) >> that carries troops are close to the enemy as it's commander dares, > armed >> with anti-personnel weapons, and a MBT 'stretched' to carry an 8 > man rifle >> squad (sort of a giant Merkava) > > AFAIK the Merkava can only carry a few troops if it ditches the > main gun ammo.
I did say "sort of" and "giant". It's not a Merkava, just influenced by the design. > And it is heavy, how heavy would that stretched > variant become? My TL8 design came in at 56 tons, with the firepower (150mm gun) and frontal armor (DR 2000 laminate) of an MBT. (see the bottom of the post) >> >> > The suits will have a hard time following a tank assault. >> >> >> >> I'd put the infantry ahead of the tanks, not the other way > around. >> > >> > Depends on the situation. Tanks carry all that armor for a reason. >> >> Infantry ahead of the tanks are more likely to find anti-tank defenses than > >> the tanks. > > Walking infantry? Tank platoons have battle drills for action on > contact, and assault is one option. Perhaps I'm too heavily influenced by WWII, but tanks that are operating ahead of infantry get slaughtered. >> And, of course, the infantry can always ride on the tanks ... > > A battlesuit can lock the hands onto grips on the tank. Sure. A battlesuit is probably better suited to being a tank rider than regular infantry (even if armored). >> >> > An IFV can have a driver, a gunner and a commander. All suit > troopers >> > are >> >> > multitasked. >> >> >> >> Not more than any other infantryman with a lot of sensor input > directed >> >> to their helmet HUD. Or a fighter pilot. >> > >> > What percentage of the air/space force applicants make it into a >> > fighter cockpit? And what percentage of the army recruits will end >> > up in a battlesuit? >> >> One could argue that the soldiers grew up as kids playing console games > that >> familiarized them having to deal with so much input. TL 12 marines > won't be >> mostly farmboys. > > Console games train quick action to threat icons. Not the same as > out-thinking an enemy. Virtual reality console games then? Anyway, I was thinking more of new recruits being used to rapidly-changing information digitally presented to them. The military will tech them how to out-think the enemy. >> >> > Is a stealth capsule more stealthy than a stealth dropship? > The >> > dropship >> >> > has a higher size modifier, both are likely to top out at > radical >> > stealth >> >> > and emission cloaking with (TL-4)*2, but the dropship can > afford a big >> > >> >> > deceptive jammer, the capsules can't. >> >> >> >> The difference in SM might make up for the loss of a deceptive > jammer. A >> > suit >> >> is SM +1 or +2, while a dropship is at least +6 and probably > more. >> > >> > The TL12 jammer is -12 to -16 and it covers many sensors. >> >> >> I don't have VE2 handy. What's the largest deceptive jammer a > battlesuit can >> reasonably carry? >> >> Brandon > > I would say -5 or -6. On the scale of a suit even half a cf is a lot of > volume. So on the low end, the SM of the dropship negates the jammer advantage it has the battlesuit, while at the upper end of jammers, the dropship has a clear ECM advantage. ----------------------------------- Here is the tank/APC NorAmCo Mauler AFV (TL8) NorAmCo, best known for their light Cat series AFVs, raised quite a few eyebrows when they released the Mauler five years ago, in 2043. Nearly 50% larger than late 20th century MBTs (despite not being much heavier), Mauler sales have been fairly light. On the surface, the idea seems to be a good one: rather than using two vehicles, why not use one? By using just one vehicle, one can save on maintenance and crew, both of which are significant drains on armies. The main downside is that the enemy has to destroy only one vehicle instead of two. Despite the Mauler's size, it is rather nimble and quick. Rather unusual, it mounts two coaxial weapons. While the 15mm chaingun is fairly common in this role, the 40mm AGL is not. Normally, this is use to clear an area suspected of hiding infantry or to destroy very light vehicles, without wasting precious cannon ammo. The 150mm LP cannon is the most powerful chemical slugthrower in use on any combat vehicle. It feeds through two magazines. Ammo can vary, but the load below is fairly typical. Note that the Mauler has enough electronics to function as a self-propelled artillery piece, but it requires an incline to drive up (such as the side of a hill) so it can achieve high angle fire. The pintle mounted 15mmC chaingun is mounted atop the main turret, next to the commander's hatch. Several internal layouts were tried and abandoned. The final configuration, front to back, is: engines, driver and electronics, turret, fuel tanks, troop compartment. There is a small hatch over the troop compartment (required because of the large turret overhang) and and two large doors (but no ramp) at the rear. No one is happy about six hundred gallons of highly volatile jet fuel in the middle of the vehicle; a variant is being tested that uses a normal gas turbine, allowing the use of safer diesel fuel. However, power output is much lower (355 kW each) and performance thus suffers (48 mph top speed). The troops commander (usually a sergeant) has a computer terminal provided for his use. Depending on the situation, one or both four-man fire teams carried may dismount; usually, both do, with one on either side of the Mauler. The squad sub-leader (usually a corporal) will follow behind the vehicle, where he can see all the troops, while the squad leader remains in the vehicle, monitoring the Mauler's sensors and crew conversations. Note that the tank commander normally outranks the infantry commander. [All of this is the organization NorAmCo has used in its demonstrations and testing; customers tend to use their existing command structures. It is worth noting that many users reduce the infantry carried to the more normal 4-6, which makes the vehicle much more comfortable for the troops. Subassemblies: body +5, full rotation turret +4, two tracks +4, one open mount -1 P&P: two 760 kW HP gas turbine w/1500 kW improved tracked drivetrain, energy bank (5 rE cells), 600 gallons jet fuel (fire chance: 11) in twelve 50 gallon self-sealing tanks, range 333 miles (road) Occ: Turret: 2 NCS (gunner and commander); Body: 1 NCS (driver), 10 CS (troops) Cargo: none (both the turret and body have 5 cf of empty space Armor Body/Turret: F 6/2000 L, RLB 5/300 L, TU 4/400 Tracks 4/100 Weaponry 150mm LP cannon [Turret:F] (35 APFSDS, 35 HEDP) 15mmC coaxial chaingun [Turret:F] (600 AP) 40mm AGL [Turret:F] (200 HEDP) 15mmC A/A chaingun [OM1:F] (380 AP) Equipment Turret: two medium range scambled radios, thermograph (10 miles, Scan 17), AESA (25 miles, Scan 19), IFF x2, laser rangefinder (25 miles), HUDWAC, 2 crashwebs, 2 terminals, 16 prism dischargers, full stabilization for all weapons,universal mount for chaingun and AGL, anti-blast magazine for cannon and AGL ammo Body: one medium range scambled radio, thermograph (10 miles, Scan 17), 3x thermograph (2 miles, Scan 13), 2x military GPS, advanced laser/radar detector, 11 crashwebs, 2 terminal, 2x hardened micro computer, full fire suppression, 13-man NBC kit Statistics Size: 12'x15'x31' Payload: approx. 6.05 tons Lwt: 56.15 tons Volume: 2198 cf (Size Mod: +5) Maint.: 10 hours Price: $4,056,000 HT: 12 HP: 3744 [body], 1332 [each track], 2268 [turret] gSpeed: 67 gAccel: 4 gDecel: 20 gMR: 0.75 gSR: 7 GP: low (2/3) Design Notes Frame is extra heavy for 1060 cf body, 500 cf turret, 636 cf tracks, and one 2 cf open mount. The vehicle has heavy compartmentalization and is sealed. It has basic IR cloaking, basic sound baffling, and basic stealth. Weapons 15mmC chaingun: see p.VE43 40mm AGL: see p.VE43, 40mm grenade launcher 150mm LP cannon: one long barrel barrel, smoothbore, liquid propellant, slow autoloader Dam varies, Malf Ver, SS 30, Acc 15, 1/2 Dam 3400 yds, Max 10500 yds, ROF 1/8, $467,000, 7600 lbs HEDP ammo is $435, 72 lbs, 6dx25 (5) plus 6dx105 [12d] HE damage APFSDS ammo is $1150, 72 lbs, 6dx45 (2), +50% ranges (performance stats do not reflect different LP settings) ----- Brandon _______________________________________________ GurpsNet-L mailing list <[email protected]> http://mail.sjgames.com/mailman/listinfo/gurpsnet-l
