I reiterate the assessment by Richard. Kudos for an articulate layout and for Valve at being proactive. Now the question is...to the person that kept saying, _it's a symptom, it's a symptom_.. w/o stating what the problem in the same sentence, do you agree with Richard? ;) You don't have to answer, but I think it's more than fair since you initiated such a characterization.
[FLASH] MjrNuT Arise from Flames and Ash, Behold Immortality www.flamesandash.com Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:46:43 +0000 > From: Patrick Shelley <sidest...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Scoring - an open letter to Valve :) > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: > <c80a52490903151246h69092fbdr8dcc2b9c91add...@mail.gmail.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 bang on target richard. i think you summed up exactly what the actual problem is.... server admin's on their pedestal. On 15/03/2009, Richard Eid <richard....@gmail.com> wrote: > Who said that creating, building and eventually maintaining a community is > supposed to be any fun. It is what you make of it, I suppose, but it's not > always fun. If all the administration and management isn't your cup of tea, > then you're in the wrong business. Attention to detail is a big part of a > running a successful community and if any one aspect is ignored, the > community eventually starts to deteriorate. Like I keep saying...the > community isn't about you, it's about the players. Sometimes you have to > sacrifice your own satisfaction to appease and satisfy the community's > needs. If you're doing it solely for the purpose of being looked up to or > to feel that players consider you "above the rest", you're doing it all > wrong. > > This is a huge problem nowadays. Server operators feel they are somehow > above the players and should be treated as such. It shows in the attitude > of a lot of people on this list, which I'm sure echoes throughout the the > rest of the server operator population that doesn't participate here. It > also obviously shows in the subsequent actions that server operators take. > Yes, you run servers so that people can play Valve's games. But guess > what? So do so many other people. And a lot of them are satisfied with > what Valve does with the game and the servers. I'm sick and tired of > hearing the argument that without people to run thier servers, the games, > and subsequently Valve, would die. Do me a favor and refresh your Server > Browser. Does anyone see a shortage of servers to play on? That argument > needs to stop right now. None of us are special, nor do we deserve anything > for running a server. You made the choice to run a server. If you don't > like the direction Valve is taking us, make another decision to stop running > that server, it's simple. You aren't above the players, but you're free to > keep thinking that as your servers sit empty. I've always heard that it's > lonely up on that pedestal, anyway. > > This new ranking system serves to directly address this problem as it will > force server operators to live up to a higher standard and give the players > what they want. That's what Valve has always been about, at least in my > eyes. It's what the Custom tab was all about but was shunned by the people > who thought it would hurt their servers. I don't recall any of the players > complaining about it, though. When server operators broke that system, > Valve removed it because, at that point, it served no purpose. It wasn't > helping players like it was originally intended to do. Players began to > complain that custom servers were still on the Internet tab, but they never > complained that the Custom tab existed. Most server operators didn't even > give that system a chance before they decided they were going to work around > it, anyway. Even though it's gone, I still see a lot of the tools that were > designed to work around it still available and in use on tons of servers. > That goes to show that people don't care about their communities, only the > well being of their precious server. > > I'm not saying that every server operator fits this description, but I feel > that more do than don't. This is now being dealt with. > > Bad servers aren't the problem, I agree. Bad servers are a symptom. The > problem is bad server operators. And this solution does a lot to give > server operators incentive to run better servers...honest servers. Servers > that players want to play on, not servers that the operator wants to play > on. Yeah, yeah, you pay for the server so you'll run it however you want. > Fine, play by yourself. But be honest about what's going on or pay the > price(read: be delisted). With the way the ranking system has been > described, it seems to me that it is the players who are deciding what the > players want, not Valve...and thankfully now, not server operators. Read > that blog post back over. > > What types of tools are you looking for to promote your community? It seems > like between Steam and the rest of the Internet, there are more than enough > tools to promote your community. If you can't find a way to get that job > done, you're not trying hard enough. I think that's a very poor excuse for > tricking players into joining your servers anyway. People aren't using > these tactics because the right tools aren't available, they're using these > tactics because they can and because they either lack morals or think it's > the right way to build a community. But mostly I think they're worried > about how their server population reflects upon their own personal status. > > I won't try to put words into Valve's mouth and I obviously don't speak for > them, but you said: > > *Is Valve saying they want server admins to WORK to keep their servers > popular in some sadistic way? > * > Uh...shouldn't that be a given? You said it at the beginning of your > response. "Work is involved." Just because you set up a server doesn't > mean it's supposed to or going to be full all the time. We'd all like for > that to be the case, but the reality is different. You have to give people > a reason to come back. You have to differentiate yourself from the rest in > some way. It's the players who will ultimately make or break your > community, not Valve. You can be the catalyst for your community, but > without players, where are you? > > And no, I'm not saying that you need a team of people who can be on-call to > fill your servers all the time. I'm only suggesting that it's one good way > to get your server(s)/community going. If people see that there are always > players in the server, in the future, they'd be more likely to join that > server even if it were empty because they'd assume that more people are > probably only a few minutes away. You shouldn't have a problem with this > anyway. If you started a server in the first place, I'm going to assume > that you wanted to have a place for you and some or all of your friends to > play. What other reason would you have a server? Oh yeah...to measure your > status in the world. > > For instance, there is a group of servers that I play on. They are almost > always packed full at the times I want to play. Sometimes I'll notice that > they're completely empty, though. I still join one of their servers because > when I do, someone else joins. Then two more people join. Then five more > people join. Then, before I know what happened, it's full. And that all > started by me making the Server Browser show 1/24. > > Those other 23 players may not have joined for the same reason I did, > though. I think a lot of them joined because A) there was a slot open and > 2) because the servers in that community are operated well and are a > pleasurable place to play. They give me a reason to come back, just like > they gave almost all of the other 23 players that came in after me a reason > to come back. Yeah, there are a few that joined because they saw an almost > full server, but the majority are players I've seen there before. They had > a reason to come back besides it being a full server. So the guy(or gal) > that joined when it was 3/24 may be the guy that seeds it next time. Same > as the person that joined it when it was 23/24 because he/she found it an > awesome place to play and hopes that he/she can get a good game going the > next time around. Each person may have their own reasons for returning to a > server, I have mine. But I guess I can't say specifically what those > reasons are other than I just like playing there with the others that join. > > And this community in particular doesn't "cheat". They run an > honest-to-goodness community and have never done anything to alienate the > playerbase. They aren't the only community I frequent that I can say this > about, either. I'd like to know how you came to the conclusion that these > servers you've researched "cheat". Could you also provide some > clarification on "cheat"? I feel like you may be embellishing a little bit > to help your side of the argument, but I'll wait until you clarify and/or > qualify that statement before I come to that conclusion. Good communities > are solid and their servers stay full because they are straight-up with and > good to their players. Maybe my definition of a good community differs from > yours. > > Either way, you still haven't defined what you consider to be "the problem". > > -Richard Eid > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- Sent from my mobile device _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
