I think that it should be reiterated that, while some of these issues may have been found with more rigorous testing, things like matchmaking breaking and/or certain things not working on certain system just simply can't always be caught. The matchmaker is a global system, I'm sure things worked fine within their small network of test servers. I bet they didn't test the sv_region problem because 1.) they don't use sv_region, and 2.) we probably shouldn't be using it either. Yeah it would have been nice for more specific changes to matchmaking to be given to us, but it's also not unthinkable that they didn't test a single cvar that wound up causing problems for the minority of us using it.
Also, Valve can't test their updates on every single OS and distribution in the world, so it's pretty much bullshit to say it's their fault that something isn't working on your particular OS. I don't know what OS they use for Windows or Linux, but I'm sure it's not Win2k8 like somebody said having problems, and I'm sure it's not Debian like I use. Also, Valve probably doesn't test their code with MM/SM since that isn't their job. Yeah it sucks when there is an update and it causes problems for third party addons, but it's not their place to provide this sort of support. Blaming Valve for SM breaking - or worse, assuming that every update is going to totally break SM and blaming any of your plugin problems on an update - is stupid and you are stupid if you do it. On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 14:04 -0700, Midnight wrote: > This is why software companies have QA teams, Developers are not good at > finding bugs since they are too close to their own code. > > > Steven Sumichrast wrote: > > With msleeper on this. Valve should test the heck out of this stuff > > in house more. I'd rather them delay a few days and release good > > stuff... But that's not how they work. I've gotten used to whenever > > I get the text alert about a "required update" to plan to have the > > rest of my evening shot in the foot. > > > > I would like to get the sv_region thing fixed... It seemed prior to > > this update that when I used the appropriate sv region I got far fewer > > "out of area" players than I do now... Either way I appreciate the > > fixes. > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:21 PM, msleeper <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Yeah I agree. Here we are, back on the "omfg teh beta" argument. As > >> Violent Crimes (lol) and SmOoThEm said, the fact that there are issues > >> with updates isn't anything new to anyone. So I don't know why it is > >> such a surprise or people cause such an uproar when yet another update > >> has some minor problems. > >> > >> >From here, it looks like everything is fixed more or less. I would be > >> interested in some official word why sv_region was breaking lobby > >> compatibility and/or if we should just permanently remove that variable > >> from our configs if it will not be in use any more. But everything seems > >> to be working, and the defunct fork bug seems to have been fixed as well > >> which makes me jump for joy. > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 13:57 -0400, f7 f0rkz wrote: > >> > >>> Then they would have beta clients used to test these servers... > >>> > >>> I think its a can of worms to do a beta though... At least they fixed > >>> some > >>> of the problems in a relatively fast manner. Give them a day or so and I > >>> am > >>> sure things will be back to normal and everyone will be happy. > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Beta updates make sense for dedicated-server-only fixes... however just > >>>> about every patch also includes balance and/or client-affecting fixes - > >>>> you > >>>> can't test them with a server beta test > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:hlds- > >>>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Keeper > >>>>> Sent: 01 October 2009 18:37 > >>>>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > >>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available > >>>>> > >>>>> Why should they? They have a way to let server operators and players > >>>>> update > >>>>> almost instantaneously. With the way the steam platform works, we > >>>>> become > >>>>> their unpaid QA group. It is a headache for GSPs as well as individual > >>>>> server operators, but is anybody losing money over it? If not, then I > >>>>> can > >>>>> see why they would be hesitant to change their business model. > >>>>> > >>>>> Look at it this way, and I know a lot of people are different, I bought > >>>>> HL2DM when it first came out. I haven't purchased another steam game > >>>>> since > >>>>> then. Yet I still play that game every night. Valve isn't making any > >>>>> money > >>>>> off of me. They don't make any money off the server operators either. > >>>>> > >>>>> Personally, I think it's a horrible way to do business ... but that > >>>>> would be > >>>>> more from a pride standpoint than a business model. > >>>>> > >>>>> Keeper > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: SmOoThEm [mailto:[email protected]] > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:04 PM > >>>>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > >>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available > >>>>> > >>>>> In response to Violent Crimes and his post: > >>>>> > >>>>> This has been a major complaint for years now, valve makes all kinds of > >>>>> changes and must release multi patches to fix the original patch all at > >>>>> the > >>>>> expense of the server owners. I'm glad we all have nothing better to do > >>>>> but > >>>>> update and troubleshoot valves broken patch updates all night long. > >>>>> It's > >>>>> become a regular routine fighting just to get our servers online let > >>>>> alone > >>>>> worry about sourcemod or plugin issues because of changes and updates > >>>>> nobody > >>>>> was prepared for. They remove cvars, change gameplay, introduce bugs, > >>>>> and > >>>>> piss a lot of people off every update with the slew of problems that > >>>>> always > >>>>> seem to follow. > >>>>> Once again I make my own plea, I would recommend you guys do the same. > >>>>> > >>>>> PLEASE VALVE, GIVE US BETA TESTING! > >>>>> > >>>>> You do so for steam client updates and such, it could be done for other > >>>>> products too. > >>>>> Give the server owners a break, allow us the chance to test updates and > >>>>> changes to FIND your bugs before it hits the masses and creates major > >>>>> problems. > >>>>> > >>>>> SmOoThEm > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
