My suggestion was to *go by Key features as given in the keys*. Regarding details, you know how confusing it is, as different sources state different things.
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 14:18, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you Mr Garg. Even if we follow the Flora of Pakistan the confusion > remains. > > > FOP says: > > Flowers small, 3.5 cm long, resupinate, whitish blue. Sepals c. 5.0 x > 1.5-2 mm, lanceolate, acute, ciliate-denticulate. Petals > oblanceolate-obovate, obtuse, marked with dark coloured violet lines, > bearded above with short hairs, the upper petal smaller than the rest and > acute; spur obtuse, c. 6 mm long. Anthers distinct. Ovary ovate, c. 2.5 mm > long, 1.5 mm broad, glabrous; style 3.5 mm long, beaked, beak directed > downward. > > *Fl. Per*.: April-August. > > My samples are *not whitish blue*, *the upper* (same as anterior since > the flower is resupinate) *petal not smaller than the rest and acute *and > the flowering time* not April to August. * > > Please advise. > > Thanks. > Ashwini > > > > > > > > On 27-Mar-2020, at 1:58 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Ashwini ji. > I think there appears to be lot of variations in different aspects in this > species. > Ultimately, we have to rely of key features as per Flora of Pakistan > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607> as > below: > 13 (12) > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-12> > Stigma > beaked. Ovary glabrous (14) > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-14> > + Stigma club shaped. Ovary hairy 2 Viola canescens > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014339> > > 14 (13) > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-13> > Leaves > acuminate. Sepals lanceolate, acute, ciliate-dentate 3 Viola pilosa > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014403> > + Leaves obtuse. Sepals ovate, obtuse, entire 1 Viola odorata > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014395> > > I do not find any other species except Viola pilosa > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/v/violaceae/viola/viola-pilosa>, > closer > to your post, after going through all the posts in efi site, FOI site and > various other online resources. > > > On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 13:47, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you Mr. Garg. Sorry for the delay in replying. I was utilising my >> indoor stay to look up more Viola resources. I am still not fully convinced >> that this is *Viola pilosa*, especially if the other plants submitted by >> Saroj ji and Anurag are also the same species. Please let me explain my >> doubts: >> >> 1. FOC says that the anterior petal is the shortest in *V. pilosa*, in >> my samples it is not the case. In Anurag >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/Uwu7e-CAMnM> and Saroj >> ji’s <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/b-0KWOphM8g> >> posts, >> the anterior petal is visibly narrower and shorter than the rest. In this >> sense they have a better claim to be *V. pilosa* than my sample. >> >> 2. The style in both posts projects well beyond the stamens and does not >> look inflated. In my samples that is not the case. >> >> 3. The lateral sepals in both posts are conspicuously bearded at the >> base. In my samples, the hair is difficult to see without magnification. >> >> 4. The flower colour in both posts is closer to white, agreeing with the *V. >> pilosa*. My samples are uniformly mauve and I have found only one >> close-to-white flower amongst hundreds of plants. >> >> I hope you understand my concern regarding this viola. I am at it for >> close to five years and still not sure of its identity. >> >> Thank you once again. >> >> Warm regards, >> Ashwini >> >> >> >> >> On 21-Mar-2020, at 9:01 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Ashwini ji, for the wonderful images. >> I will go for Viola pilosa >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/v/violaceae/viola/viola-pilosa> >> only. >> Stipules are quite variable. >> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 at 19:37, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Mr. Garg, >>> I have collected more evidence for this species and am nowhere closer to >>> a proper ID. A few points: >>> >>> 1. The flowers are almost always violet. I am yet to see a lighter >>> violet/white variety in this species. >>> 2. The flowering starts in January and the flowers are seen till April. >>> 3. The lower petal is the same size as the other petals and is always >>> prominently visible. >>> 4. The lateral petals have hairs at their base but the hairs are not >>> conspicuous. >>> 5. The top part of each stamen is deep yellow. The stamens cover the >>> style for most of its length with only the stigma and a little of the style >>> visible above the stamen ring. >>> 6. The style is club shaped and beaked at the top. The ovary is only >>> sparsely hairy. >>> 7. The two nectary appendages are smooth and green. >>> 8. The stipules are laciniate in my opinion. There may be a mix of of >>> laciniate and toothed stipules on the same plant. >>> 9. I am yet to discern an aroma from the flowers. >>> >>> Based on these points and looking at the images, if you could suggest a >>> possible match, I would be very grateful. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> With regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 12:50, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Mr. Garg, >>>> Thank you very much for pursuing this again. I am also looking at the >>>> viols closely at the moment. I have a feeling that this species is neither >>>> *V. pilosa* nor *V. canescens* but some other species, closer to V. >>>> indica perhaps. >>>> >>>> I will file more photos of the two species flowering here in a day or >>>> two. If we can find some more details on the nectar glands (or nectary >>>> appendages) for *V. pilosa* and *V. canescens*, that could be of great >>>> help. >>>> >>>> Warm regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20-Mar-2020, at 9:43 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Also ovary is glabrous here (in V. pilosa) in comparison to hairy in V. >>>> canescens >>>> Also stipule is ciliate here (in V. pilosa) in comparison to laciniate >>>> in V. canescens >>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 09:37, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Also ovary is glabrous. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 at 17:11, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As per keys in Flora of Pakistan: >>>>>> 13 (12) >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-12> >>>>>> Stigma >>>>>> beaked. Ovary glabrous (14) >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-14> >>>>>> + Stigma club shaped. Ovary hairy 2 Viola canescens >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014339> >>>>>> >>>>>> 14 (13) >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-13> >>>>>> Leaves >>>>>> acuminate. Sepals lanceolate, acute, ciliate-dentate 3 Viola pilosa >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014403> >>>>>> + Leaves obtuse. Sepals ovate, obtuse, entire 1 Viola odorata >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014395> >>>>>> >>>>>> Keys as per Flora of Mizoram in efi thread >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/wtQZmTabRQ0>: >>>>>> Leaves broadly canescent, obtuse; flower pale-violet --- Viola >>>>>> canescens >>>>>> Leaves pilose, deltoid, acuminate; flowers white to bluish --- Viola >>>>>> pilosa >>>>>> >>>>>> Here stigma is beaked and not club shaped. Leaves are acuminate and >>>>>> not obtuse. >>>>>> So, it should be *Viola pilosa* Blume >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 at 23:32 >>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:240314] V. pilosa (V. serpens)? ABMAR01/05 >>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> These flowers are very abundant in our area (much more so than *V. >>>>>> canescens*) and I find them scattered everywhere on the hill sides >>>>>> on my daily walks. I have been seeing them since January but they started >>>>>> coming out in good numbers around mid-February. These are larger >>>>>> lilac/lavender flowers with broad lower lip and a hint of contrasting >>>>>> bright yellow around the stigma. The runners are quite common and the >>>>>> stipules toothed. I have seen several capsules with sepals and stigma >>>>>> still >>>>>> attached. The leaves and stems are softly hairy but much less so than >>>>>> those >>>>>> of *V. canescens*. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now the troubling part. While typing this message and looking at my >>>>>> data closely, I have managed to convince myself that I am not certain of >>>>>> its ID. Here is why: >>>>>> >>>>>> *Viola serpens* is a synonym of *Viola pilosa* which is now the >>>>>> accepted name according to the Plant List; >>>>>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-33801418 >>>>>> >>>>>> A search for *V. pilosa* on FlowersofIndia.net >>>>>> <http://flowersofindia.net/> shows a completely different flower but >>>>>> Alok Mahendroo ji’s blog shows the same flower as the one below under >>>>>> *V. serpens*. If they are synonyms then I am baffled yet again. >>>>>> There is more—flowersofindia gives *V. serpens* as a synonym also of *V. >>>>>> indica* (an unresolved name according to the Plant List), the photos >>>>>> of which look very similar to my sample, but my flowers are definitely >>>>>> not >>>>>> fragrant. It could be that *V. pilosa* has great variation in >>>>>> colour, size and shape and that my sample is *V. pilosa* aka *V. >>>>>> serpens*. >>>>>> >>>>>> First here is a page from the Linnean Society Journal which lists *V. >>>>>> canescens* as white and much smaller that *V. serpens*. My flower >>>>>> matches the description of *V. serpens*. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how to proceed from here. Is my sample *V. pilosa* or >>>>>> a hybrid or a local variation? Is it a variety of *Viola canina*? I >>>>>> am in great need of >>>>>> expert advice. Please help. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> <Screen Shot 2016-03-03 at 22.57.59.png> >>>>>> <80237.jpg> >>>>>> <232617.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1629_02Mar2016.jpg><_MG_1753_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1538_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1223_29Feb2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0859_26Feb2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1637_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1571_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1542_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1543_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_2040_03Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1638_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1601_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1578_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_1589_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>> the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>>>>> Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> >>>>>> (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 >>>>>> images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on >>>>>> 30.8.19). >>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>> of India'. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which >>>>> more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than >>>> 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >> world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >> Efloraofindia >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >> database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than >> 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >> India'. >> >> >> > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> > Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the > world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or > Efloraofindia > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species > database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than > 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). > The whole world uses my Image Resource > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > > > -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFB0dQBhGikfv0xe%2BzL_2PNXdEjDO%3Dg9AY7xFnMZgX_mXg%40mail.gmail.com.
