Dear Mr. Garg, Thank you once again. I still think it would not hurt to keep the ID pending till we are more certain. Perhaps someone will shine a light on this some day.
Warm regards, Ashwini On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 14:39, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > My suggestion was to *go by Key features as given in the keys*. > Regarding details, you know how confusing it is, as different sources > state different things. > > On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 14:18, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you Mr Garg. Even if we follow the Flora of Pakistan the confusion >> remains. >> >> >> FOP says: >> >> Flowers small, 3.5 cm long, resupinate, whitish blue. Sepals c. 5.0 x >> 1.5-2 mm, lanceolate, acute, ciliate-denticulate. Petals >> oblanceolate-obovate, obtuse, marked with dark coloured violet lines, >> bearded above with short hairs, the upper petal smaller than the rest and >> acute; spur obtuse, c. 6 mm long. Anthers distinct. Ovary ovate, c. 2.5 mm >> long, 1.5 mm broad, glabrous; style 3.5 mm long, beaked, beak directed >> downward. >> >> *Fl. Per*.: April-August. >> >> My samples are *not whitish blue*, *the upper* (same as anterior since >> the flower is resupinate) *petal not smaller than the rest and acute *and >> the flowering time* not April to August. * >> >> Please advise. >> >> Thanks. >> Ashwini >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 27-Mar-2020, at 1:58 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Ashwini ji. >> I think there appears to be lot of variations in different aspects in >> this species. >> Ultimately, we have to rely of key features as per Flora of Pakistan >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607> as >> below: >> 13 (12) >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-12> >> Stigma >> beaked. Ovary glabrous (14) >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-14> >> + Stigma club shaped. Ovary hairy 2 Viola canescens >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014339> >> >> 14 (13) >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-13> >> Leaves >> acuminate. Sepals lanceolate, acute, ciliate-dentate 3 Viola pilosa >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014403> >> + Leaves obtuse. Sepals ovate, obtuse, entire 1 Viola odorata >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014395> >> >> I do not find any other species except Viola pilosa >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/v/violaceae/viola/viola-pilosa>, >> closer >> to your post, after going through all the posts in efi site, FOI site and >> various other online resources. >> >> >> On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 13:47, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you Mr. Garg. Sorry for the delay in replying. I was utilising my >>> indoor stay to look up more Viola resources. I am still not fully convinced >>> that this is *Viola pilosa*, especially if the other plants submitted >>> by Saroj ji and Anurag are also the same species. Please let me explain my >>> doubts: >>> >>> 1. FOC says that the anterior petal is the shortest in *V. pilosa*, in >>> my samples it is not the case. In Anurag >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/Uwu7e-CAMnM> and >>> Saroj >>> ji’s <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/b-0KWOphM8g> >>> posts, >>> the anterior petal is visibly narrower and shorter than the rest. In this >>> sense they have a better claim to be *V. pilosa* than my sample. >>> >>> 2. The style in both posts projects well beyond the stamens and does not >>> look inflated. In my samples that is not the case. >>> >>> 3. The lateral sepals in both posts are conspicuously bearded at the >>> base. In my samples, the hair is difficult to see without magnification. >>> >>> 4. The flower colour in both posts is closer to white, agreeing with the *V. >>> pilosa*. My samples are uniformly mauve and I have found only one >>> close-to-white flower amongst hundreds of plants. >>> >>> I hope you understand my concern regarding this viola. I am at it for >>> close to five years and still not sure of its identity. >>> >>> Thank you once again. >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 21-Mar-2020, at 9:01 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Ashwini ji, for the wonderful images. >>> I will go for Viola pilosa >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/v/violaceae/viola/viola-pilosa> >>> only. >>> Stipules are quite variable. >>> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 at 19:37, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Mr. Garg, >>>> I have collected more evidence for this species and am nowhere closer >>>> to a proper ID. A few points: >>>> >>>> 1. The flowers are almost always violet. I am yet to see a lighter >>>> violet/white variety in this species. >>>> 2. The flowering starts in January and the flowers are seen till April. >>>> 3. The lower petal is the same size as the other petals and is always >>>> prominently visible. >>>> 4. The lateral petals have hairs at their base but the hairs are not >>>> conspicuous. >>>> 5. The top part of each stamen is deep yellow. The stamens cover the >>>> style for most of its length with only the stigma and a little of the style >>>> visible above the stamen ring. >>>> 6. The style is club shaped and beaked at the top. The ovary is only >>>> sparsely hairy. >>>> 7. The two nectary appendages are smooth and green. >>>> 8. The stipules are laciniate in my opinion. There may be a mix of of >>>> laciniate and toothed stipules on the same plant. >>>> 9. I am yet to discern an aroma from the flowers. >>>> >>>> Based on these points and looking at the images, if you could suggest a >>>> possible match, I would be very grateful. >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> With regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 12:50, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Mr. Garg, >>>>> Thank you very much for pursuing this again. I am also looking at the >>>>> viols closely at the moment. I have a feeling that this species is neither >>>>> *V. pilosa* nor *V. canescens* but some other species, closer to V. >>>>> indica perhaps. >>>>> >>>>> I will file more photos of the two species flowering here in a day or >>>>> two. If we can find some more details on the nectar glands (or nectary >>>>> appendages) for *V. pilosa* and *V. canescens*, that could be of >>>>> great help. >>>>> >>>>> Warm regards, >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 20-Mar-2020, at 9:43 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Also ovary is glabrous here (in V. pilosa) in comparison to hairy in >>>>> V. canescens >>>>> Also stipule is ciliate here (in V. pilosa) in comparison to laciniate >>>>> in V. canescens >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 09:37, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Also ovary is glabrous. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 at 17:11, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> As per keys in Flora of Pakistan: >>>>>>> 13 (12) >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-12> >>>>>>> Stigma >>>>>>> beaked. Ovary glabrous (14) >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-14> >>>>>>> + Stigma club shaped. Ovary hairy 2 Viola canescens >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014339> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 14 (13) >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=134607#KEY-1-13> >>>>>>> Leaves >>>>>>> acuminate. Sepals lanceolate, acute, ciliate-dentate 3 Viola >>>>>>> pilosa >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014403> >>>>>>> + Leaves obtuse. Sepals ovate, obtuse, entire 1 Viola odorata >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200014395> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keys as per Flora of Mizoram in efi thread >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/wtQZmTabRQ0>: >>>>>>> Leaves broadly canescent, obtuse; flower pale-violet --- Viola >>>>>>> canescens >>>>>>> Leaves pilose, deltoid, acuminate; flowers white to bluish --- Viola >>>>>>> pilosa >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here stigma is beaked and not club shaped. Leaves are acuminate and >>>>>>> not obtuse. >>>>>>> So, it should be *Viola pilosa* Blume >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 at 23:32 >>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:240314] V. pilosa (V. serpens)? ABMAR01/05 >>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These flowers are very abundant in our area (much more so than *V. >>>>>>> canescens*) and I find them scattered everywhere on the hill sides >>>>>>> on my daily walks. I have been seeing them since January but they >>>>>>> started >>>>>>> coming out in good numbers around mid-February. These are larger >>>>>>> lilac/lavender flowers with broad lower lip and a hint of contrasting >>>>>>> bright yellow around the stigma. The runners are quite common and the >>>>>>> stipules toothed. I have seen several capsules with sepals and stigma >>>>>>> still >>>>>>> attached. The leaves and stems are softly hairy but much less so than >>>>>>> those >>>>>>> of *V. canescens*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now the troubling part. While typing this message and looking at my >>>>>>> data closely, I have managed to convince myself that I am not certain of >>>>>>> its ID. Here is why: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Viola serpens* is a synonym of *Viola pilosa* which is now the >>>>>>> accepted name according to the Plant List; >>>>>>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-33801418 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A search for *V. pilosa* on FlowersofIndia.net >>>>>>> <http://flowersofindia.net/> shows a completely different flower >>>>>>> but Alok Mahendroo ji’s blog shows the same flower as the one below >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> *V. serpens*. If they are synonyms then I am baffled yet again. >>>>>>> There is more—flowersofindia gives *V. serpens* as a synonym also of >>>>>>> *V. indica* (an unresolved name according to the Plant List), the >>>>>>> photos of which look very similar to my sample, but my flowers are >>>>>>> definitely not fragrant. It could be that *V. pilosa* has great >>>>>>> variation in colour, size and shape and that my sample is *V. >>>>>>> pilosa* aka *V. serpens*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First here is a page from the Linnean Society Journal which lists *V. >>>>>>> canescens* as white and much smaller that *V. serpens*. My flower >>>>>>> matches the description of *V. serpens*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not sure how to proceed from here. Is my sample *V. pilosa* or >>>>>>> a hybrid or a local variation? Is it a variety of *Viola canina*? I >>>>>>> am in great need of >>>>>>> expert advice. Please help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>> <Screen Shot 2016-03-03 at 22.57.59.png> >>>>>>> <80237.jpg> >>>>>>> <232617.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1629_02Mar2016.jpg><_MG_1753_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1538_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1223_29Feb2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_0859_26Feb2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1637_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1571_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1542_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1543_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_2040_03Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1638_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1601_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1578_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_1589_02Mar2016.jpg> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>>> the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>>>>>> Efloraofindia website >>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>>>>> database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than >>>>>>> a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>>> etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>>>>> free >>>>>>> as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>>> of India'. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>> the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>>>>> Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> >>>>>> (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 >>>>>> images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on >>>>>> 30.8.19). >>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>> of India'. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which >>>>> more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>> world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >>> Efloraofindia >>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>> database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than >>> 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>> India'. >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >> world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or >> Efloraofindia >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >> database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than >> 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >> India'. >> >> >> > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> > > Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. > > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the > world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or > Efloraofindia > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species > database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than > 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19). > > The whole world uses my Image Resource > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAAKUM9BD_uAe9nRJrPNgNN_7qcVyNSynSKo%2Bi-L%3DKjvPVhkkvQ%40mail.gmail.com.
