Yes Dinesh ji
-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Many many thanks, Gurcharan ji for resolving this ID. > > Your revised note would read: > "We should now wait for some one uploading leaves with 6-9 pairs of > leaflets, smaller leaflets shorter than 3.5 cm, shorter leaf (*less than 15 > cm long*) and shorter pod (7-10 cm long) the true *Senna surattensis*." > > > Regards. > Dinesh > > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Dinesh ji please read leaves shorter than 15 cm in S. surattensis >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Yes Dinesh both your plant, and uploaded by me today, and others as >>> Senna surattensis should all belong to Senna sulfurea. Occurrence of gland >>> in third pair is no issue as both Revised Handbook of Ceylone and Flora of >>> Pakistan mention glands between lower 2-4 pairs of leaflets. I got slightly >>> confused with smaller size of leaflets in your cropped image but those in >>> your original upload match mine. >>> >>> We should now wait for some one uploading leaves with 6-9 pairs of >>> leaflets, smaller leaflets shorter than 3.5 cm, shorter leaf (less than 10 >>> cm long) and shorter pod (7-10 cm long) the true Senna surattensis. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Gurcharan ji, >>>> >>>> Your analysis prompted me to go through the Senna PDF (Flora of China) >>>> http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/china/PDF/PDF10/Senna.pdf ... the plant >>>> in my upload is quite close to *Senna sulfurea* (Collad.) H.S.Irwin & >>>> Barneby (syn. *Cassia glauca* Lam.) >>>> >>>> Seeking clarification regarding these two points: >>>> 1) the stipules in my plant ... can they be considered as linear ? >>>> 2) the clavate glands on rachis between each of lowest 3 pairs of >>>> leaflets ... in description, put as 2 ... can it be considered as possible >>>> variation ? >>>> >>>> Have re-attached the relevant image files for ready reference. >>>> >>>> If the considerations are positive, then my plant must be *Senna >>>> sulfurea* (Collad.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby ... though aware that *Cassia >>>> glauca* Lam. is treated differently by the top organizations. >>>> >>>> Your thoughts. >>>> >>>> Regards. >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dinesh ji >>>>> Perhaps the whole situation has to be looked carefully. Flora of China >>>>> seems to be very confident about number of leaflets 4-6 pairs (usually 5 >>>>> pairs) and C. glauca as synonym of S. sulphurea., whereas those unaware of >>>>> S. sulphurea (Fl Pakistan, Hortus Third) who simply treat C. glauca as >>>>> ynonym of S. surattensis directly mention 4-10 pairs of leaflets in the >>>>> species. The Plant List follows Flora of Cgina whereas GRIN treats S. >>>>> sulfurea a S. surattensis subsp. sulfurea (DC. ex Collad.) Randell (a 1989 >>>>> publication whereas Irwin & Barneby combination as Senna sulfurea is >>>>> 1982). >>>>> It seems that Cassia glauca Lamk. described in Flora of British India >>>>> (although leaflet number is not mentioned) should be Senna sulfurea >>>>> wherea >>>>> Cassia glauca var. suffruticosa Koenig. (C. suffruticosa Wall. Cassia >>>>> speciosa Roxb; with 16-18 smaller leaflets) is true Senna surattensis. >>>>> Perhaps some one has to find this true Senna surattensis with (6-9 >>>>> pairs of leaflets; leaflets 2.5-5 cm, obtuse at tip) as against we usually >>>>> find S. sulfurea (C. glauca) with 4-6 pairs of larger leaflets (4 to 10 cm >>>>> long), which most of us are finding and uploading. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Dinesh Valke >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks Gurcharan ji for validating this ID. >>>>>> Had earlier (long back) labelled it as *Cassia glauca* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The single photo of Jun 21, 2007 is one of the same plants that was >>>>>> photographed after two years on Aug 22, 2009. >>>>>> 5 pairs of leaflets, their sizes uniformly increasing as they near >>>>>> the tip of the stalk. >>>>>> The size of the leaflets, relatively has reduced, with the plant >>>>>> maturing. >>>>>> In the matured plant, the largest leaflet measures about 20 - 25 mm, >>>>>> the entire leaf about 10 - 12 cm. >>>>>> The seedpod measures about 12 - 15 cm long X 10 - 12 mm wide, >>>>>> comprising about 18 - 20 seeds. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Posting more attachments (cropped versions of already attached >>>>>> photos); perhaps may help in getting to the ID. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder whether this should be Senna sulfurea (4-6 pairs of >>>>>>> leaflets; leaves 15-30 cm long; stalk of fruit 10-20 mm long) or Senna >>>>>>> surattensis (leaflets 6-9 pairs; leaves 10-15 cm long; stalk of fruit >>>>>>> 6-7 >>>>>>> mm long). I wonder if we really have true Senna surattensis in India. I >>>>>>> would be happy if some one uploads one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Senna surattensis * (Burm.f.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - *SEN-nuh* -- Latin form of Arabic word for a thorny bush >>>>>>>> *sur-rat-EN-sis* -- of or from Surat (Gujarat, India) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [image: Senna >>>>>>>> surattensis]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F587623056%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzdOCRNdcAAyXRR2IN96CVR7Jxq2tA> >>>>>>>> Jun 21, 2007 ... near Yeoor Hills, Thane, Maharashtra >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *commonly known as*: glaucous cassia, golden senna, scrambled egg >>>>>>>> tree, Singapore shower, smooth senna, sulphur-flowered senna, sunshine >>>>>>>> tree, Surat senna • *Gujarati*: કાસીદ kasid • *Kannada*: ಬೆಟ್ಟದವರೆ >>>>>>>> bettadavare • *Marathi*: मोठा तरवड motha tarvad • *Tamil*: >>>>>>>> குண்டுப்பூக்கொன்றை kuntu-p-pu-k-konrai, மஞ்சட்கொன்றை mancat-konrai, >>>>>>>> வெள்ளைத்தகரை vellai-t-takarai, வெள்ளாவிரை vel-l-avirai, வெண்டகரை >>>>>>>> ventakarai >>>>>>>> • *Telugu*: మెట్ట తంగేడు metta tangedu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Native to*: India, Sri Lanka >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *more views*: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Aug 22, 2009 ... near Yeoor Hills, Thane, Maharashtra >>>>>>>> [image: Sulphur-flowered >>>>>>>> Senna]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F3870039881%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfBR0Wve1h0Pll3kLqIsuLqUIMGKw> >>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>> Glaucous >>>>>>>> Cassia]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F3870802142%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzdxnDpuOr6FkZy4_JBCF3bPzwJ6Qw> >>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>> Surat >>>>>>>> Senna]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F3870012379%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfDSAoS4JXF-qF9XEBOZXXBjezd0A> >>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>> Metta Tangedu (Telugu: మెట్ట >>>>>>>> తంగేడు)]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F3869990547%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEze974SrEOMP897UHsaM5ycZmgbISQ> >>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>> Golden >>>>>>>> Senna]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F3870036347%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfvmdFmQV5VRF9UY7jjB0oj-KvGGw> >>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>> Bettadavare (Kannada: >>>>>>>> ಬೆಟ್ಟದವರೆ)]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F3870811602%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzcdB_RIPGpvvfYnQCcJ28Uvo05rrQ> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
